Is "The Great Gatsby" the paradigmatic American novel?

Good question! I vote for "Huck Finn": first US novel written in the vernacular, and shows the best and worst of us, at least regarding race. Not to mention the notion of the frontier...

Hmmm. When? I think it's dependent on the "movement." And do you mean paradigmatic of the American zeitgeist, or of the American novel itself? And which America? Surely Faulkner would speak more to people in place and Fitzgerald in another (and Steinbeck in another, for that matter).

Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, I might put forward a Steinbeck novel (Grapes of Wrath would be the obvious choice, I suppose), but that's probably just his subjects are so close in situation and attitude to my forbears -- and his use of language so similar to mine, having grown up with the speech of Midwesterners-gone-West. Stories from parents and grandparents about coming west and picking fruit in the San Joaquin Valley and whatnot...

I agree that while The Great Gatsby is the best of the times it entails, it certainly cannot be the example of all of America or all of its time.
There are a reat many books we could attribute to each time, example of time, area, etc.

pd, are you saying it's folly to pin down one book as being paradigmatic, period?

I think what Rushdie is saying (through his protagonist, Malik Solanka) is that "America", the concept, is embodied by Gatsby -- his striving, his success, his fall. Later on:



I like Huck Finn and the Grapes of Wrath as nominations -- both show the hard, wrong parts of America (slavery, poverty) but also show the American "spirit". I wonder if they reflect more of how we would like to see ourselves than how we actually are, though.

Ah, I get what you're saying. Yes, it very well might be, in it's way. It strikes me as being so particularly rooted in place and time the I missed the universal you are referring to -- that green light bit, I guess it was (forgive me if I'm remembering wrongly; it's been a while, and, unlike many less worthy fictions, I've only read it once).

Could it be that the paradigmatic American novel could only have been written in a moment of great optimism. Fitzgerald certainly doesn't have a rosy outlook, but the novel is certainly built on a foundation of American optimism -- as those of Steinbeck and Twain definitely were not. (Similarly, would the paradigmatic French or Russian novel have to be written in a moment of great pessimism -- not merely despair, but the certainty that the bulk of human endeavor is folly?)

bookmarking, i don't have anything to add at this time. quinn echoed my thoughts regarding this question for now.

I love these discussions of which novel is the Great American Novel. All contemporary writers hope it hasn't been written yet -- so they can write it. To me, it has to be more all-encompassing than The Great Gatsby. Huckleberry Finn has received its share of nominations over the years, as has Steinbeck's and Faulkner's works.

I would suggest that Angle of Repose, by Wallace Stegner, be considered at least one of the Great American Novels.

Not only is it a terrific read of true American history, but it was recognized and rewarded in its own time and the author himself considers it his best work.

This is what the ReadingGroupGuides says...

"Wallace Stegner has said of his epic novel, "It's perfectly clear that if every writer is born to write one story, that's my story." It is a testament to the power of Stegner's prose and vision that Angle of Repose, winner of the 1972 Pulitzer Prize for fiction, can be appreciated as America's story as well. Based on the correspondence of the little-known 19th century writer, Mary Hallock Foote, the novel's heroes represent opposing but equally strong strains of the American ideal."

I'm not sure we're talking about the Great American Novel here, but if we are, I wonder why we never hear about the Great Irish Novel, or the Great German Novel? And so forth. Of course, there never will be any one Great American Novel, nor should there be, but it is fun to debate this paradigmatic issue!

I think, from her second post, Soz was not so much asking about the Great American Novel as one that would best address some -- thing -- issue -- theme -- symbol -- attitude -- that might be central to American literature, such as it is.

Not my thread, though, so I can't say for sure.

Oh hi, yep, yer right. Paradigmatic doesn't necessarily have anything to do with quality -- it could be "Valley of the Dolls", or "Less Than Zero", or "The Rules."

--gotta go, will come back later --

Sorry, I was confused. I happily thought you were talking about the Great American Novel and assumed vaguely that paradigm was a five dollar word meaning example. Which it is, I looked it up.

I also looked up paradigmatic and it does imply quality. Its first meaning is having the nature of a paradigm (or example) and its second meaning is exemplary. Originally a paradigmatic was a writer of the memoirs of religious persons, as examples of Christian excellence.

I wonder how Salman Rushdie was using it? Hard to separate his writings from any religious backdrop, so can assume that he was loving the idea of Christian excellence.

D'A -- I think that there is a Great German Novel, and also a Great Irish Novel. Seems like the Great German one was something from Goethe and the Great Irish Novel is Ulysses.

I have the feeling that what Rushdie meant with the use of "paradigmatic" is that Gatsby is the best example, or best expression, in literature of the American Ideal or the American dream, or perhaps of the American character. Or, he could mean that the book is the best embodiment of the total working out of the American dream.

Assuming this, or something close to it, is what Rushdie is talking about, the next question for me would be is he right about the American character, or is his view too simplistic, or too cynical?

One of my problems is that I do not recall from my reading of the book what went on in Gatsby's mind, or for that matter, if the book even let us in on those secrets. Maybe it only told us what he did.

I think that Gatsby may be said to be a darned good stab at being the literary embodiment of the American dream, but I don't think it's the whole picture. But considering how people are voting these days, I think the Gatsbyesque model is alive and well.

By the way, Sozobe, thanks for this interesting thread.

Hazlitt, you got exactly at a few things I'd been going for. Thanks. I too wondered if Rushdie, (or his protagonist Malik Solanka), had things wrong. For Gatsby is not truly the hero of the tale -- I don't think we, as Americans, identify with him. We identify with the narrator, a nice unassuming sort who ultimately pities Gatsby.

There are actually several levels to this question -- what is America? What book best captures that American-ness? Can one book capture America across the ages, or does there need to be a new book for every micro-zeitgeist the sweeps the land?

Sozobe, I had forgotten about the narrator.

I think a novel that truly described America would fill several volumes and would contain many intertwining stories. I wonder if James Mitchner was attempting something like this. I guess not.

When you think about it, it's asking too much to imagine that the meaning of a society as complex as ours could ever be packed into one slim novel like Gatsby. The only good approach is to keep on reading and trying to synthesize as much as you can.

I agree, I dont believe that the complexity of America can be, or at least to this point has been done. Mitchner actually is a possibility for something close to come about, I think.
I also think that although Gatsby is a fine rendering of perhaps the American Dream in effect, it also mirrors failures with that, although personal or perhaps even hidden, it certainly isnt what most Americans have or ever will know. It is however a great example of that era.

I'm entranced still that originally a Paradigmatic created the memoirs of an excellent person. I think that Rushdie is wondering if we believe that someone from the Great Gatsby showed excellence... is someone to look up to. Since Gatsby is good in every way except for racketeering, that otherwise he created the American ideal of wealth and substance... maybe we're being insulted.

Seems to me that while Nick is who we may have identified with, he is ultimately not the main character, just a good person caught up in a social maelstrom and not strong enough to step away. Without him, we wouldn't be able to see the entire story.

I don't think Mitchener qualifies as having written TGAN because he tended to write populer pot-boilers. Maybe I'm being a snob here, but I don't think he's one of our great writers. Huge scope, for sure, but that's about it.

How about Underworld by Don DeLillo? A huge novel taking into account US history during the last half of the 20th Century, including culture, politics, race and baseball. And he's a fantastic stylist. As he once said, "The important thing about paranoia in my characters is that it operates as a form of religious awe."

I think that's very possible. A more purely rags-to-riches tale would be Horatio Alger, but Gatsby has all kinds of other levels to it. "Fury" is meant to be satirical, and is generally rather love/hate about America. (But we may be discussing it for our A2K book club, so I'll hold off with that.)

When I first read that paragraph, I thought "Oooh, perfect, it is paradigmatic, isn't it?" Then I wasn't so sure, and I thought it may make for an interesting discussion (as it has been so far! Thanks, everyone.)

Interestingly, of Great NON-American Novels (for other countries), I think "Midnight's Children" by Rushdie is the Great Indian Novel. It has that twistiness and allusiveness and captures so much, hints at so much else.

Checking in late here, all the good stuff has already been said. But, what the hell...

I think that what Rushdie is saying, in a sardonic sort of way, is that in his opinion (and this is an important distinction) Gatsby is the prototype of what most American men aspire to -- wealth, prestige, a sense of fair play and -- above all -- the ability to be whatever one wants to be. Gatsby has simply re-invented himself and this is a very American idea.

To answer your original question, Sozobe (which, I believe, was whether I agree or disagree), I'm not sure. There's a little bit of Gatsby in all of us, but I'm not sure he's much of a paradigm. In his time and place, he may have been. Not so much today.

Do I ramble? Well, then, I ramble.