Is Chrstianity the true religion?

@Krumple,

Reading the Bible and studying at university the history of how it was made is what convinced me that it's man-made myth. Education, not ignorance, made me an unbeliever.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Take your pick, I guess. Some sort of unambiguous evidence (that entails the theistic conclusion) would be helpful. We could at least analyze it.

One of the first things that struck me was the stark difference between what the Bible actually says and what the 'theologians' claim it says.

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@FBM,

I take you back to an earlier post in this thread, where I suggested a look at John 13: 34,35.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Reading the Bible and studying at university the history of how it was made is what convinced me that it's man-made myth. Education, not ignorance, made me an unbeliever.

I agree. I also have studied the early history of the Hebrews, their culture that led up to the formation of christianity. Early Jews were not monotheists they were polytheists. It was just a small tribe of Jews who wanted to launch their god above the others and they did it violently and brutally. Both through fighting and attempts to rewrite their history to make it seem as if they were always monotheistic.

They failed to cover it all up. Yet modern christians assume their history because they start with the premise that a god exists therefore everything must be in line with that conclusion. But they ignore how many of the biblical stories have greek equivalents that existed long before they were written by Jewish scribes.

Although I don't believe in any gods, to really be honest, the closest you can ever get is deism. No christian or muslim or jew is justified by their belief or their doctrines. To make any claims beyond deism is nothing but conjecture and wishful wanting. To claim more than simple deism is dishonesty at the least. There could be a god, but no one has any knowledge of what this god's characteristics are or what it's motivations are or if it even cares about it's creation if it even was the cause behind the universe.

After all this god could be mistaken and believe that it created the universe but no theist would actually consider that ever to be a possibility. It just reveals how dishonest they are on the subject.

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@neologist,

OK, I googled it and it's a great sentiment, but I don't see how it's relevant to the request for evidence.

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@Krumple,

Much of that reflects what I came to perceive in that History of the Bible class, which was taught by a pastor, by the way. The stories were altered or outright fabricated as a means to gain political control. What I suspect just started out as an oral history of a people go turned into a tool for manipulating the masses. The gullible masses.

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@FBM,

I suggested only that finding such a group might be a good start.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Much of that reflects what I came to perceive in that History of the Bible class, which was taught by a pastor, by the way. The stories were altered or outright fabricated as a means to gain political control. What I suspect just started out as an oral history of a people go turned into a tool for manipulating the masses. The gullible masses.

I refer you back to the post I made above:

Quote:

One of the first things that struck me was the stark difference between what the Bible actually says and what the 'theologians' claim it says.

One of the primary claims is 'immortality' of the soul. Would it surprise you to find it is not supported by the Bible?

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Much of that reflects what I came to perceive in that History of the Bible class, which was taught by a pastor, by the way. The stories were altered or outright fabricated as a means to gain political control. What I suspect just started out as an oral history of a people go turned into a tool for manipulating the masses. The gullible masses.

I agree but at the same time not necessarily in opposition to this. If it has minimized aggression and violence in people then by all means it has it's use. But at the same time it is difficult to evaluate if this has actually occurred. After all christianity has a very violent past. How many people lost their lives by people who claimed they were righteously carrying out their god's will by murdering non-believers or pagans? It could be that the violence only shifted. Rather than chaotic and randomly violence it has become focused on particular groups instead but the number of lives that would have been lost is the same (if not more).

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@Krumple,

It could also be true that the violence would have occurred regardless of religious indoctrination and that only the motives changed. I don't know of any way to test that, though.

Let me clarify, though. I don't really care what people believe as long as they don't hurt others because of it. What goes on in my head is nobody else's business unless I start bothering others with it, and I extend the same sovereignty of though to everyone else.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

It could also be true that the violence would have occurred regardless of religious indoctrination and that only the motives changed. I don't know of any way to test that, though.

Let me clarify, though. I don't really care what people believe as long as they don't hurt others because of it. What goes on in my head is nobody else's business unless I start bothering others with it, and I extend the same sovereignty of though to everyone else.

Yes that would be ideal. The fact that it is never written like this is in a way proof that no god inspired any scriptures. To condone taking up arms against non-believers or anyone who challenges the doctrine only adds fuel to aggressive thoughts. I don't see any real peaceful resolve any time soon because of this support within the scriptures themselves.

Christianity has seemed to become less violent than it's early history. But Islam seems to be going through this process now since it had been so sheltered for so long. The hatred between Jews and Muslims has been so deeply embedded that I doubt it will ever resolve. The only solution I see is to absolve people of religious views all together because the basis for violence is sourced in their holy texts.

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@Krumple,

Quote:

The only solution I see is to absolve people of religious views all together because the basis for violence is sourced in their holy texts.

My first thought was, 'Yeah, but that's going to take a lot of violence.' But then I thought, well, maybe secular education in science and critical thinking will eventually do it. Worldwide, I think, religiosity is on the decline. Or I think I read that somewhere. I'll have to check on that.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

...One of the primary claims is 'immortality' of the soul. Would it surprise you to find it is not supported by the Bible?

Not me, no, because I already learned that elsewhere. But I'm pretty sure it would surprise a large number of believers.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

neologist wrote:

...One of the primary claims is 'immortality' of the soul. Would it surprise you to find it is not supported by the Bible?

Not me, no, because I already learned that elsewhere. But I'm pretty sure it would surprise a large number of believers.

Maybe not. It seems any time a point is brought forth revealing something either contradictory or non-existent in the bible becomes irrelevant to a believer. They will either accuse the person of attempting to corrupt the interpretation or that they lack some other information that sets the record straight.

So to me it really comes down to a strong bias that belief cancels out any information that would contradict the belief. The reason I come to that conclusion is simply due to you pointing this fact out. If they really cared about the actual text and the things their pastors, preachers and ministers tell them then these things would have been cleared up long ago. Obviously they don't care. In other words belief trumps truth.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

. . . If they really cared about the actual text and the things their pastors, preachers and ministers tell them then these things would have been cleared up long ago. Obviously they don't care. In other words belief trumps truth.

True, to a point. The clergy have exerted a tremendous negative influence on the masses in order to maintain their position.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

Maybe not. It seems any time a point is brought forth revealing something either contradictory or non-existent in the bible becomes irrelevant to a believer. They will either accuse the person of attempting to corrupt the interpretation or that they lack some other information that sets the record straight.

So to me it really comes down to a strong bias that belief cancels out any information that would contradict the belief. The reason I come to that conclusion is simply due to you pointing this fact out. If they really cared about the actual text and the things their pastors, preachers and ministers tell them then these things would have been cleared up long ago. Obviously they don't care. In other words belief trumps truth.

Motivated reasoning. Yep. But there's the occasional exception. The professor who taught the History of the Bible class that I was in when I lost faith was a Baptist minister, but also an academic. He maintained his faith, but also was brutally honest about the contradictions and so forth in the Bible. He was not into apologetics at all, in that sense. As a matter of fact, the more fundie the student, the more they disagreed with him. And he certainly wasn't trying to talk anybody out of their faith.

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@FBM,

I am not surprised that your professor was unable to reconcile 'contradictions'. He needed to keep his job.

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@neologist,

Eh? Explain, please.

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@FBM,

It's late here; so I'll give you the short answer.
In many academic circles, professed faith in Paul's words at 2 timothy 3:16 that "all scripture is inspired . . ." is looked upon as unscholarly. And the idea that the moral principles of the Bible are relevant in today's enlightened world is considered as credulity.

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@neologist,

The first does seem unscholarly and the second somewhat fallacious. It seems to suggest that secular moral principles are inferior.

Anyway, speculating about his motives for teaching the way he did is just that: speculation. Not all the faithful are believers in biblical inerrancy or literally divine inspiration.

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Is Chrstianity the true religion?

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