To call God Love is to insult Love. God does not love us.

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Then he is not as described in myths and we can ignore his sorry ass.

I usually don't vote on posts, unless it's a joke. I voted this post up, though, and it's no joke. I particularly like the succinct way this is stated.

Thanks.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Jack of Hearts,

Jack of Hearts wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

Jack of Hearts wrote:
God made Creation - and that's doing quite a lot.
He gave us life - a love as big as any parent could give.
That life can be an eternal bliss, if you follow St. James' words.

YOU can create your idea of love with having conditions - God's love is unconditional.
It seems, like many, you blame God for all the misery and injustices in our lives.
But you forget, He's not the only one influencing our world.
Quite true. Yet that God gave Satan dominion over us and the ability to deceive the whole world ands then set a bunch of other conditions for us to get to heaven including going against the natures that he created us with.
And you say his love is unconditional. Tsk tsk. You have no idea what love is it seems.
And I will wager you are not a Universalist.
If no conditions are put that break God's love, we all get to heaven. Right?
Regards
DL
That Satan has "dominion" over us is over-stating the case. In the extreme, he may take possession of our bodies, but our souls can only be surrendered by us alone. (My God view is that of a Roman Catholic.) I'm a parent, and I do know of unconditional love; I also know of justice. I know that the just must be protected from the unjust, and one can reject another's love.

If Satan does not have dominion, then there was no temptation of Christ.

The best refutation of your foolishness will be in my next O P.

Does supernatural control exonerate Eve?

Eve was unjustly punished because she was under supernatural control in a set of circumstances that God himself set up by putting Satan in Eden.

God put Satan in Eden to insure that Eve ate and gave him the power to deceive Eve. She could not resist God's power directed through Satan and thus Eve had no choice but to eat of the tree of knowledge. She, like the snake, were under supernatural control and thus innocent of any wrong-doing.

Eve fails the criteria of mens rea, Latin for evil intent, a fundamental requirement of secular and biblical law, and thus Eve was innocent of any wrong-doing.

No human judge in his right mind would have judged A & E the way God did before God set the conditions that insured that A & E also died from neglect and the locking away of the tree of life. That was murder.

Does supernatural control exonerate Eve?

The answer is obviously yes but, I am sure, not to you. You think God's power so weak that we can ignore that God said he could deceive the whole world. You can resist Satan though. Your supernatural powers exceed those that God gave Satan.

Ever wonder why God gave Satan dominion over you? I did not think so. That would take thinking.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

Satan, in the Christian mythology, has no power over us whatever except for the power to tempt. Satan gains power only if we succumb to the temptation. The purpose of religion (okay, one of its purposes) is to enable us to resist the temptation

Yours is a strange view. In Job, God admits that Satan moved him to destroy without cause.

God could not resist doing evil yet you think you can.

Quite a swollen head I see with an ego bigger and more powerful than God's.

Wow.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I'm with Jack.

If creating us is all God ever did or ever does for us, that's good enough.

If.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-nHw0_Fos&feature=player_embedded

Seems your creator God needs lessons. Oh wait. That is part of his mysterious ways. To fools.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Jesus said -
"For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

Then went on to say-
"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor" (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

So those are God's actual words spoken through Jesus's mouth and he therefore sounds alright to me..

Cherry picking are we?

Jesus also said that the divorce law is let no man put asunder and that forces people who do not love each other to remain together. That is definitely anti-love and immoral.

If you check many of Jesus' policies you will find them unworkable and anti-love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY9k&feature=player_embedded

But then you do not care about morals. You just want to ride your scapegoat Jesus into heaven.

This is coming up.

How will you get yourself into heaven?

On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

God, as described by people who love Him. appears to be no more loving than your average alcoholic father, going into murderous rages over perceived insults to His Being, then later going all mushy and cuddly and cherishing the breath of every living thing........right....until the next time He decides to send a fricking tsunami to kill 90% of those living things in a single hour.

Worshipers have the same problem the adolescent children of drunks have always had: If this be Love, then what shall we fear?

Joe(the' ain't no sucha thang)Nation

You describe Stockholm syndrome and are correct.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

Guys, guys, humans bring disasters on themselves by disturbing the fragile harmony of this dream we call reality, it's not a new idea.. Smile

"Whatever the natural cause, sin is the true cause of all earthquakes." - John Wesley (1703 - 1791)
"The floodgates of the heavens are opened, the foundations of the earth shake. The earth is broken up, the earth is split asunder, the earth is thoroughly shaken. The earth reels like a drunkard, it sways like a hut in the wind, so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion" (Isaiah ch 24)

Think of Jesus as a 'Master of the Art of Dream Manipulation' which explains how he was able to perform his 37 'miracles'.
He said we could do it too, so maybe prayer is a form of 'thought-pressure" that can affect the illusion/dream called 'reality'.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'' - Albert Einstein
"Strawberry Fields, nothing is real" (The Beatles)
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep.." (The Tempest)
"You can be in my dream if I can be in your dream" (Bob Dylan)
"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream"- Edgar Allen Poe
"What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14)
"Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?" - Morpheus in the Matrix

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/matrix.jpg

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

1 John 4:8

0 Replies

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

God, as described by people who love Him. appears to be no more loving than your average alcoholic father, going into murderous rages over perceived insults to His Being, then later going all mushy and cuddly and cherishing the breath of every living thing........right....until the next time He decides to send a fricking tsunami to kill 90% of those living things in a single hour.

Worshipers have the same problem the adolescent children of drunks have always had: If this be Love, then what shall we fear?

Joe(the' ain't no sucha thang)Nation

That tsunami could have been made by powers other than God's; (Noah's flood is another thing altogether). Accepting the world, created with all it's faults, has us being as a small child, repeatedly asking "Why? -why; but why; why; how come; why; but why?"
Once you become fully accepting that the world is not fair, and when sh*t happens - it's most very unlikely that's it isn't all about you - please, don't have the hubris to demand an instant understanding of the full meaning of life!

In a quiet moment, I'll pray that Providence will care for that alcoholic father.

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

Greatest I am wrote:

Jack of Hearts wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

Jack of Hearts wrote:
God made Creation - and that's doing quite a lot.
He gave us life - a love as big as any parent could give.
That life can be an eternal bliss, if you follow St. James' words.

YOU can create your idea of love with having conditions - God's love is unconditional.
It seems, like many, you blame God for all the misery and injustices in our lives.
But you forget, He's not the only one influencing our world.
Quite true. Yet that God gave Satan dominion over us and the ability to deceive the whole world and then set a bunch of other conditions for us to get to heaven including going against the natures that he created us with.
And you say his love is unconditional. Tsk tsk. You have no idea what love is it seems.
And I will wager you are not a Universalist.
If no conditions are put that break God's love, we all get to heaven. Right?
Regards
DL
That Satan has "dominion" over us is over-stating the case. In the extreme, he may take possession of our bodies, but our souls can only be surrendered by us alone. (My God view is that of a Roman Catholic.) I'm a parent, and I do know of unconditional love; I also know of justice. I know that the just must be protected from the unjust, and one can reject another's love.

DL -Jack of Hearts
If Satan does not have dominion, then there was no temptation of Christ. Influence and temptation is not dominion.[/b]

The best refutation of your foolishness will be in my next O P.

Does supernatural control exonerate Eve? Again, temptation is not "control".

Eve was unjustly punished because she was under supernatural control in a set of circumstances that God himself set up by putting Satan in Eden. "Putting"? It is my belief that Satan has free will, and went where he pleased.

God put Satan in Eden to insure that Eve ate and gave him the power to deceive Eve. She could not resist God's power directed through Satan and thus Eve had no choice but to eat of the tree of knowledge. She, like the snake, were under supernatural control and thus innocent of any wrong-doing.
That's not the common belief. Eve was tempted and deceived by the serpent; likewise, Adam was tempted and deceived by Eve. The serpent, Adam, and Eve, all had free will - they were not dominated nor controlled by Heaven, and Satan, only by his own free will. Our actions are a result of our free will, not demonic nor Heavenly control. Were that the case, we would not be responsible for any crime we commit, nor be given credit for our charitable deeds.

Eve fails the criteria of mens rea, Latin for evil intent, a fundamental requirement of secular and biblical law, and thus Eve was innocent of any wrong-doing. No, Eve decided to break God's only commandment, and wanted to be as God. She was responsible for her bad choice and was dealt with accordingly.[/b]

No human judge in his right mind would have judged A & E the way God did before God set the condition, A human judge? With a talking serpent, an angle with a flaming sword; voices from above; what does he know, he didn't eat any apple? that insured that A & E also died from neglect and the locking away of the tree of life. That was murder. Hardly, mortality is a gift. A&E was fruitful and multiplied, given dominion over the land and beasts - OK call it a lifetime of community service.

Does supernatural control exonerate Eve? Yes, but that wasn't the case.

The answer is obviously yes but, I am sure, not to you. You think God's power so weak that we can ignore that God said he could deceive the whole world. Er, how's that? You can resist Satan though. Your supernatural powers exceed those that God gave Satan. No, our knowledge of good and evil, our determination of right from wrong - our laws which set crime and punishment, are derived from the lessons learned in Eden.

Ever wonder why God gave Satan dominion over you? I did not think so. That would take thinking.
Again, the knowledge of good and evil, coupled with free will, make us responsible for our actions. Like TV'S Geraldine (from the Flip Wilson Show), you can't always go around and claim, "The Devil made me do it! The Devil made me do it!"

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

You have no idea of what my concept of God may be.

You continuously show up in this forum to launch another "oh so clever" post about how God can't be God because he doesn't conform with your juvenile notions.

Babies die! Proof that there can't be a God!

War! Proof that there can't be a God!

We stub our toes! proof that there can't be a God!

While there are, undoubtedly, people who have as simplistic a view of God as your arguments, you are never going to change their minds; so why these posts?

You're like a 12 year old picking on 5 year olds because they are "babies" who don't "get anything"

You need to think about why you feel it is so important to disabuse people of notions that give them comfort.

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Have you had an alcoholic for a father Joe? I have an alcoholic father. He used to come home at night all drunk then beat and abuse us. Can you imagine the fear listening to his footsteps nearing the door? My body use to tremble under the sheets, my heart in my throat. Can you imagine to have to see your mother beaten up and in tears?
Now I understand what a father's love is. I feel Him in my heart, healing it. I feel loved, I feel clean. He is nothing like my alcoholic father.

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

You don't know GOD!

I know GOD and he loves.

He loves you and want you to come to him.

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

I think you are right about what true love means but I do not think the same about God.I guess (because of what you wrote) that you believe in the God of the catholic church. As well I believe in God, but not as the church said. I think he made us free to gave us the chance of choosing, he provide us with all the things we needed to live in love and in peace but we didn´t. For example, when a child starts to walk, he falls down before learning it, his parents help him (as God sending us the oportunities of living in peace) but his parents are not the ones who have to learn it, so even he falls down many times finally he will learn by him self, with help but by him self. In my opinion God is equal to Love, cause I´ve decided in not believing in a God that hate us and kill everyone, so for me what is an insult is calling God/Love an entity without heart. There are so many religions in the world and you have choosen that, but nothing phisically prove that they are right, what makes us believing in them is the faith. So why not to choose believing in an other kind of God, even it doesn´t appear in any religion at the moment? Is true we live in a world with injustices and death, so why not to believe in something better? Why not to change the world by ourself and stop waiting for a miracle?
So my question is... What stops you believe in something better?
(sorry for the spelling mistakes, my native language is not English)

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

The way I look at it.

The christian god comes from the source of Judaism yet if you try to compare the two, meaning the original Judaism version of Yahweh and the christian hippy version of love, they are completely 100% contradictory.

In the past the people respected and expected that their god would be vengeful and angry. Why would a god be nice and peaceful if the world was constantly fighting? War and bloodshed?

But now we have become a little more civilized and this wrathful vengeful god isn't appealing to people. So the hippy christians are trying to re-write the past. This is why you hear so many christians say the old testament is irrelevant when looking at god's characteristics. It is an attempt to forget the source of their god and invent a new one.

It is not loving at all to punish a being simply for being related. This is like punishing me if my great grandfather was a thief and a murderer. Why should I be punished for his actions? After all I had no choice in being his descendant.

Yet modern christians think it is perfectly acceptable that descendants are punished for the actions of their ancient ancestors. There is absolutely NOTHING in the new testament or old testament that support the concept that god is all loving or omni-benevolent. This doesn't stop modern christians from trying to put forth this idea. But then again christians are rarely if ever consistent or logical in their reasoning.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

I have posted the exact thought in the past....why should anyone be accountable for the sins of their forefathers? I've never understand that...if were supposed to be individual souls...

1 Reply

@Germlat,

Germlat wrote:

I have posted the exact thought in the past....why should anyone be accountable for the sins of their forefathers? I've never understand that...if were supposed to be individual souls...

It is because this is a way to get you to feel that you are not deserving of this life and that you owe something for your existence. It is the seed to indenture you to mind slavery. It is an attempt to make you feel guilty of something which you need to seek redemption for.

It is no different than a crazy doctor who claims everyone has an illness and only he has the cure. You need to buy his snake oil to cure yourself but it is also an on going cure. Which means you need to tithe your wages to this doctor and obey everything the doctor tells you otherwise the cure won't work. Not only will it not work but you will die a horrible death.

Gullible people fall for it and through their fear they indoctrinate their children fearing for their children's safety.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

So you only think that God can´t exist only because if he does he must do everything for us? Is true wars and die are horrible things, but we cause them. God does not have to be a person up in the sky that give us all done, perhapes God is an other tipe of enery (this doesnt mean he couldn´t think) and we have to learn how to live with that energy.
Who have to stop wars, is us.
who have to stop injusticies, is us.

If you think God is something as bad as wars and that he have to do all for us is because you doesn´t live life as something unic and wonderful, and because you have a worst idea of universe, God and life.

2 Replies

@Tamara2000,

No you misunderstood what I wrote.

I was giving examples of the type of argument the originator of this thread regularly offers.

I do not believe human suffering is proof there is no God. If fact, I don't think there is any proof that God doesn't exist. Of course there's no proof that he does exist either.

1 Reply

@Tamara2000,

Tamara2000 wrote:

So you only think that God can´t exist only because if he does he must do everything for us? Is true wars and die are horrible things, but we cause them. God does not have to be a person up in the sky that give us all done, perhapes God is an other tipe of enery (this doesnt mean he couldn´t think) and we have to learn how to live with that energy.
Who have to stop wars, is us.
who have to stop injusticies, is us.

If you think God is something as bad as wars and that he have to do all for us is because you doesn´t live life as something unic and wonderful, and because you have a worst idea of universe, God and life.

If you have the ability or the power to do something about it but don't act then you are not deserving of any respect or admiration. Let me illustrate this for you.

You go to the beach and you notice a child is drowning, there is a guard on duty well he appears to be a guard but he isn't doing anything. Just sitting there watching the child drown. You can't do anything, you don't have the power or ability to do anything but this guard does, yet does nothing.

But you want to admire the guard for doing nothing when he has the ability to act. He just sits there passively watching and you want to praise him for that?

If I had the power or ability I would exercise it..

0 Replies

To call God Love is to insult Love. God does not love us.

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know