Using organization money for private use

@Twilight2010,

If you can't track down the people who put the money in, it has to go back to the university for the benefit of the students. It's not your money, and sooner or later someone from the university will be wondering what happened to it.

I suspect you've already dipped into it and are worrying that you might have committed a crime. You have, and sooner or later someone will find out. Having a record of this thread on your computer won't look good when the police come knocking at your door.

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@Twilight2010,

Twilight2010 wrote:

I dont see how taking money from dead organization is different from taking money from dead stranger who you promised to safeguard his money.

I'll agree that both are bad things to do (and illegal in a number of jurisdictions).

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@Twilight2010,

Twilight2010 wrote:

Lets say a stranger asks you to keep a sum of money for a certain time. You store the money for stranger but you hear that stranger is dead. You have no way of tracking his family who might benefit from the money. Since the stranger is dead, you are relived of your duty to keep the money for the stranger.
Do you disagree?

There are fairly well-defined legal steps to be taken in situations like this, so yes, you are relieved of your duty to keep the money. You are also relieved of the money.

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@Twilight2010,

Governments tell banks how to handle situations like this. It's not like you're inventing a wheel here.

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@Twilight2010,

Twilight2010 wrote:

I am treasurer so I can manage the money I want to.

really? was the organization legal to begin with? whose charter was it run under?

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@contrex,

contrex wrote:

Where I come from this would probably be theft. You should seek legal advice, if only to establish on record your good faith.

good advice by contrex

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Better calculate the reality of statute of limitations where you are. It's money, eventually somebody will remember it. Because you have already decided to steal money that as treasurer requires you to be legally responsible and liable, flip a coin. Which would inconvenience you more, facing legal action for theft or the public embarrassment of your family, peer group and co-workers learning you can't be trusted. But, hey, that's just me. This is not a pro-choice/pro-life, live and let live situation. Thieves find very creative ways to take things that don't belong to them,

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@glitterbag,

A stranger asks you to keep a sum of money for a certain time. You guard the money for stranger but you hear that stranger is dead. You have no way of tracking his family who might benefit from the money. Since the stranger is dead, you are relived of your duty to keep the money for the stranger. So using the stranger's money is stealing ?

Sure there MAY be law on these things, but just because there are laws on things doesnt mean it is ethical way to handle it. If stranger was going to buy himself 100 jellybean bags with that money, should you give money to another stranger who has the same wish?

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@ehBeth,

I have strong incentive to take the money since I cant see it as stealing. Why bother with law if you can benefit from it and NO ONE IS HARMED? Have you never walked on a red light? If people see no cars coming they will very often cross red light even though they are not supposed to. You can blame them for breaking law, but I applaud their practical approach. Law was made for men, not men for law.

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@Twilight2010,

You need to contact your organization's advisor and ask. You keep dancing around that, but that's what you must do. Never mind that it doesn't say so specifically in whatever rules you are reading - your advisor is there to handle just such issues. He or she will have the burden of figuring this out, and can be pointed to in the event of any consequences.

Your examples of a friend dying, etc. are 100% disingenuous. And, by the way, if you kept $$ for a friend who ended up dying, you would not be entitled to the $$. You'd be on the hook to give it back to that friend's estate.

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You're rationalizing like 14 year old, and I've had many conversations like this with 14 year old children. Why can't I down load music for free, it's right there on the Internet? Because it's stealing from the artists. Paint a picture of Mickey Mouse outside on your day care center, voila, Disney lawyers sue you.

Actually I hope you do the unethical and illegal step of embezzling others money. When you are discovered, not only will you either be prosecuted, forced to pay the money back with interest, you will be humiliated and potential employers will find the whole irresponsibility Tresurer gig a huge red flag. Bon chance

P.S. not only is it unethical it is also illegal. Better consult a lawyer

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

Actually I hope you do the unethical and illegal step of embezzling others money. When you are discovered, not only will you either be prosecuted, forced to pay the money back with interest, you will be humiliated and potential employers will find the whole irresponsibility Tresurer gig a huge red flag. Bon chance

P.S. not only is it unethical it is also illegal. Better consult a lawyer

I don't get how we got this far into the discussion before anyone dropped the "E" bomb. This is a text book definition of what embezzlement is. Good post Glitterbag.

Quote:

em·bez·zle
[em-bez-uhl] Show IPA
verb (used with object), em·bez·zled, em·bez·zling.
to appropriate fraudulently to one's own use, as money or property entrusted to one's care.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/embezzlement?s=t
I can imagine it's not a lot of money so jail time wouldn't be an issue if the people involved are caught. I suspect an academic suspension or worst expulsion from that school if those involved in the theft of the school and club's money are caught by the school.

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there's bound to be some sort of student government or some university arrangement that disburses funds to student activities. Give the money to them. Students didn't contribute the money in the first place to give it to you. They gave it for a student activity. If that activity is dead, the next reasonable heir is other student activities, not you. As everybody else says, if you take it for yourself, it's theft. I suspect, if the university finds out about it, you'd be a reasonable case for expulsion.

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@tsarstepan,

tsarstepan wrote:

I can imagine it's not a lot of money so jail time wouldn't be an issue if the people involved are caught.

It's a crime of dishonesty committed by someone in a position of trust and that is a really bad thing to have on your record whatever the amount. It says a lot to a potential employer about how much they can trust you, and how much you care about performing duties that might be assigned to you. Also, and equally telling, how stupid you are. If you got sacked from college for embezzlement, that would, rightly, reinforce the impression of stupidity.

Anyhow, when I was a student society treasurer, the accounts were annually audited and also were liable to unannounced surprise audits.

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@Ragman,

Quote:

Use the member's list of contributors and refund every cent.

Exactly

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@Twilight2010,

Quote:

I will contact advisor if I feel like taking dead organization money is unethical. Can you explain why what I am trying to do is unethical? I dont think anyone is harmed by it so no wrongdoing.

I am treasurer so I can manage the money I want to. Normally it would be for the club only but since its dead, I can decide.

He already explained the reasoning. It is unethical because you are using the money for purposes that are different than those proposed when it was collected. If you are the treasurer you are obligated to use the money in the interest of the organization, not yourself. If the organization is defunct, you are obligated to give it back to the members. If that is not feasible, donate to a charity.

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@Twilight2010,

Quote:

You can call me names sure but I am receiving impression that you cant articulate your opinion on an ethical dilemma.

He articulated his opinion and the clearly correct opinion quite well. You just don't like the answer.

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@Twilight2010,

Quote:

I have strong incentive to take the money since I cant see it as stealing. Why bother with law if you can benefit from it and NO ONE IS HARMED? Have you never walked on a red light? If people see no cars coming they will very often cross red light even though they are not supposed to. You can blame them for breaking law, but I applaud their practical approach. Law was made for men, not men for law.

That is just plain wrong. How old are you? Have you already spent the money?

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I see I am a few days late to this party. I should pay more attention. I wonder what the outcome was?

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@IRFRANK,

This is just a wag, I figure she/he has already taken the money and is trying to figure out how to cut the other opportunist out of the equation. Some folks simply don't think the laws apply to them. This ridiculous rationalization is utter bullshit, however it's possible no one will notice. I think most of us have been around long enough to know that when money is involved people have a loooong memory. Possibly students no longer involved in this activity will forget, but I bet there is a parent or faculty advisor who will eventually wonder what happened. That is when the the doggy doo hits the fan.

Recently a group of parents whose children attended a high school in DC started looking for funds that should still be at the school but POOF, they mysteriously disappeared. Story has been running in the Washington Post, certainly not every day, but reporters are looking hard at this and want an explanation.

1 Reply

Using organization money for private use

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