Is property worth a life? (this is NOT a firkin gun thread)

Reply Fri 20 Sep, 2013 11:57 pm
this story is continuing locally, very near a good friend's dwelling...

"You can still see the stains, reddish-brown and etched into the concrete, down a sidewalk in College Hill Park.

The spots mark a dying man’s last steps.

Whether they realized it or not, College Hill residents stood right around the bloodstains as they met with police officers Tuesday evening. The Wichita Police Department calls it an impact meeting – a chance for residents to meet with police and get information, ask questions and voice concerns about a recent crime in their neighborhood.

In this case, the string of events apparently began as a car burglary, which allegedly prompted two men to chase the burglar into the park. The chase ended in a fatal stabbing of the alleged burglar early Sunday, and culminated in first-degree murder charges Wednesday against two Wichita men accused of running down the fleeing burglar."

"Police Detective Tim Relph, a veteran member of the homicide unit, began the discussion at Tuesday’s meeting with the residents just west of the park swimming pool, where generations of children have splashed and now, near where a fatal stabbing occurred.

“This is a problem that came to your door,” Relph told about two dozen neighbors who formed a semi-circle around him. A minute later, he clarified himself.

“Actually, it came to their doorstep,” he said, referring to a house behind him in the 300 block of South Clifton.

The stabbing appears to have started with a car burglary a block south of the stabbing scene, in the 400 block of South Clifton. A man identified in court documents as Carl A. Cooper, a 32-year parolee with 14 auto burglary and theft convictions in the past decade, had allegedly burglarized a car outside a home on South Clifton. He was not from the neighborhood. A woman saw him in her car and yelled at him.

It was around 3:45 a.m., and two men approaching the house to visit the woman evidently heard the yelling.

“This was just a chance interaction,” Relph told the neighbors.

The two men didn’t know the man they were chasing, and according to Relph, they chased Cooper as he ran north about a block. One of the men ran after him; the other drove a pickup by the park.

The chase zig-zagged on foot through the park. The detective pointed to a barren locust tree near the swimming pool, where the chase ended in the stabbing.

Cooper suffered two or three stab wounds, in his upper body and upper leg, police have said. He died from his injuries about nine hours later, at Wesley Medical Center.

At the meeting, one of the residents asked Relph and several officers with him whether they should confront a criminal.

“No, that’s what we get paid to do,” Officer M.L. Lowe responded. Lowe is the community police officer assigned to the area, so he responds to any concerns in the neighborhood around the park.

“I don’t want homicides on my beat,” Lowe said.

What police want people to do is to promptly report suspicious behavior by calling 911 and to be a good witness.

A woman asked how the law defines legal use of force, and Relph said you can use deadly force to protect yourself – “You don’t have to wait to get stabbed.”

You also have to be able to “articulate” how you were threatened and how you were in fear, he said.

What police don’t want, Relph said, is people killing each other over property.

When the same woman heard that Cooper had a number of thefts on his record, she blurted out, “I hate to say it, but my sympathy level just went down (for him).”

Later, after she learned more about how he was allegedly chased down and stabbed more than once, she changed her mind, saying she did have sympathy for him.

“He was hunted down,” she said.

Police have recovered a fixed-blade knife.

After he was stabbed, Cooper left a blood trail for about 100 yards, from the tree in the park over the sidewalk, across Clifton and onto the front porch of a home across from the park.

A woman at the home, who didn’t want to be named, told an Eagle reporter that her family woke up early Sunday to a “man bleeding to death” on their porch. His wounds left him too weak to stand. According to emergency radio traffic, the first responders found a “bunch of blood” in the street.

Most of the blood has been washed away, but not before it left the stains in the pores of the sidewalk.

On Wednesday, prosecutors charged Kyle A. Carter, 30, and Trenton H. Custer, 34, with first-degree murder in Cooper’s death. They remain in jail on $250,000 bonds on the murder charges.

Carter is on probation for felony forgery. In 2004, he was in trouble with federal authorities, who charged him with possessing a Russian-made SKS rifle related to methamphetamine trafficking, court records show. In his guilty plea, Carter admitted to receiving the SKS rifle from two other men in exchange for meth; the exchange took place in Newton in November 2003. He was sentenced to five years in federal prison.

In March 2009, records show, Carter tested positive in Sedgwick County for meth use. He received a 10-month prison sentence for violating conditions of his release.

Custer spent time in prison in 1999 and 2000 for a burglary of a non-dwelling in Kingman County, records show."

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/09/14/3000153/fatal-college-hill-park-stabbing.html#storylink=cpy

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Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 12:35 am
so your question is " should theft result in a vigilante death sentence?" Seriously?
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 12:38 am
you are not equipped to venture here.

thanks for dropping by...
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Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 09:38 am

Texas is the only place I am aware of where it is legal to kill fleeing thieves in order to prevent the loss of property.
Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 09:46 am
oralloy wrote:

Texas is the only place I am aware of where it is legal to kill fleeing thieves in order to prevent the loss of property.

figures. Texas, Louisiana, Florida....banana republics all. is it the wet heat that warps minds?
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Reply Sat 21 Sep, 2013 09:48 am
Sadly, yes. In Texas those two killers might never have had to face charges. Killing the man on your own property would change the dynamics in other locations. My personal thought is, my property is not worth another's life, unless the process physically threatens me and my family.
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