Free speech/expression and CVS.

@Lash,

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PERFECT!!!

You are such a hypocrite, Lash, as are the vast majority of your pablum fed lot. Y'all don't address the facts, you just waltz on in your fantasy world.

You have made heroes of so many terrorists and war criminals. Every on of your presidents post WWII have committed war crimes that, if there was equal justice in this world, would have seen them hang just like the Nazi and Japanese war criminals.

You little children, just like IRFrank in the post before this one, can't face reality.

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Louis CK talks about meeting Woody Allen, and says "**** Rolling Stone."
Really like Louis. (grin)

You would like a jerk off.

"They put that kid on the cover that blew up Boston, so f*ck them," C.K. said.

Typical US ignorance.

Not surprising that you like that, either, Lash.

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@BillRM,

You idiots are really something else. You have regular circle jerks to talk about how y'all have me on 'ignore' and then you keep coming out illustrating that you are all liars of gigantic proportions.

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as not every problem in the world past, current and future fold back onto the evil US.

And I've never said that was the case. These silly memes only serve to highlight how dumb you are, Bill.

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I wonder when or even if you had already put forward the theory that evil CIA agents had gone back in a time machine to make sure Jesus was crucify.

See what I mean. Rolling Eyes

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@JTT,

Wow

What about the rest of the world's leaders during this period?

How many of them do you think were wonderful?

You may be right about American leaders but why do they deserve more intense scrutiny and condemnation than any other?

It doesn't take very long in this forum to recognize that you have the proverbial hard-on for America. Must be something personal. If you shared, maybe people would better appreciate your POV.

You're a strange one Mr. JTT.

From what I can tell, a lot of people here have claimed to have tuned you out, but still comment on you.

I just don't think that being a rash that people want to ignore but can't is something worth striving for.

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@DoctorGotz,

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It doesn't take very long in this forum to recognize that you have the proverbial hard-on for America.

Not at all, Doc.

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What about the rest of the world's leaders during this period? How many of them do you think were wonderful?

Who in particular, Doc?

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You may be right about American leaders but why do they deserve more intense scrutiny and condemnation than any other?

It's not me that right. It's the historical record. I'll give you one good reason why US leaders and the US deserve more intense scrutiny and condemnation. Because they have been incredible liars and hypocrites, condemning others for things that they have been as bad or worse than.

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From what I can tell, a lot of people here have claimed to have tuned you out, but still comment on you.

Of course they, largely USians, have tuned me out. They simply cannot stand to hear the truth about what their country has done. In fact, they continue to make lame excuses for all the war crimes and terrorism inflicted upon the innocents of the world.

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@JTT,

Not at all?
I beg to differ.

Who in particular?
Pick one or two, any you might like to celebrate.

American leaders are the only "incredible liars and hypocrites, condemning others for things that they have been as bad or worse than?" Really?

What's this "Usian" bit?

The people in this forum who apparently have sent you to the void, are not uniformly "Usian" patriots.

Obviously you have a personal problem with America, so tell us where it comes from. Apparently some people have surmised that you are Japanese which might reveal that you harbor animosity for the US based on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

If that's the case it's understandable but not very rational, It would be very easy to imagine a Chinese, Burmese, Philipino (etc) JTT all fuming and angry about Japan.

Germans are rightfully horrified and angry about Dresden, but they have to factor in Auschwitz et al.

It would help to understand why you measure America against standards that no country on earth meets.

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@DoctorGotz,

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It would help to understand why you measure America against standards that no country on earth meets.

We must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow. To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well.

Robert H. Jackson
Nuremberg Tribunal.
Opening Address to the International Military Tribunal at the Nuremberg Trials (November 10, 1945).

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@JTT,

And they are the only "defendants" in recent or past history?

You're ducking the question.

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@DoctorGotz,

Doc, you're the one ducking the central issue.

Should the war criminals and the terrorists from the US be held to the same standard as the US and the allies held the Germans and the Japanese to after WWII?

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@JTT,

Whether or not they should, the question that seems to be constantly posed to you and which you conspicuously refuse to answer is are there other "bad guys" who deserve the same or worse criticism for their actions over the same period of time?

Your refusal to acknowledge that there have been other equally bad guys during this period really makes it seem that you have a personal ax to grind when it comes to the US.

The constant argument that the US has been head and shoulders above every other nation in nasty ways is making you irrelevant in this forum except to the extent that a lot of people want to announce they have "ignored" you.

I'm not a member of the My Country, Right or Wrong Club and I appreciate that our government, like every other, is responsible for some lousy and even heinous actions, but you seem obsessed. Even Stalin's Soviet Union and Mao's Communist China were not 100% bad.

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@DoctorGotz,

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Whether or not they should, the question that seems to be constantly posed to you and which you conspicuously refuse to answer is are there other "bad guys" who deserve the same or worse criticism for their actions over the same period of time?

I see that you have been fully briefed, Doc.

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Apparently some people have surmised that you are Japanese which might reveal that you harbor animosity for the US based on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

And that you aren't the least bit bothered that you can absorb propaganda and churn it out with the best of them.

But let's deal with "are there other "bad guys" who deserve the same or worse criticism for their actions over the same period of time?

Those same bad guys were dealt with. End of story.

Should the war criminals and the terrorists from the US be held to the same standard as the US and the allies held the Germans and the Japanese to after WWII?

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@DoctorGotz,

DoctorGotz wrote:

Whether or not they should, the question that seems to be constantly posed to you and which you conspicuously refuse to answer is are there other "bad guys" who deserve the same or worse criticism for their actions over the same period of time?

Your refusal to acknowledge that there have been other equally bad guys during this period really makes it seem that you have a personal ax to grind when it comes to the US.

The constant argument that the US has been head and shoulders above every other nation in nasty ways is making you irrelevant in this forum except to the extent that a lot of people want to announce they have "ignored" you.

I'm not a member of the My Country, Right or Wrong Club and I appreciate that our government, like every other, is responsible for some lousy and even heinous actions, but you seem obsessed.

Even Stalin's Soviet Union and Mao's Communist China were not 100% bad.

I must dissent, qua the commies.

David

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@JTT,

You are sad because you only have a single focus, the evil USA. In fact, man has been spreading death and destruction on himself long before the US existed. Do 'we' do the same. Yes, but this is hardly new. We are a violent and destructive species. Taking sides and finding some evil 'other' to blame serves no purpose other than to aswage your own guilt. I do not approve of much of of what those in power do in the name of their own righteousness, regardless of the nation they lead, their religious position, or their own self proclaimed innocence. Your own position of piety is annoying. You have no special understanding of the truth.

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@IRFRANK,

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You are sad because you only have a single focus, the evil USA.

What is sad about attempting to stop the leading terrorist nation on the planet, Frank?

Are the people of the Simon Wiesenthal Center sad for trying to bring German war criminals to justice? Do German war criminals differ materially from US war criminals, from US terrorists?

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In fact, man has been spreading death and destruction on himself long before the US existed. Do 'we' do the same. Yes, but this is hardly new. We are a violent and destructive species.

And these violent and destructive groups have to be exposed and stopped, just as the Nazis were stopped.

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I do not approve of much of of what those in power do in the name of their own righteousness, regardless of the nation they lead, their religious position, or their own self proclaimed innocence.

Neither did the US.

"If certain acts of violation of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them, and we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us."
Robert H Jackson
International Conference on Military Trials, London, 1945, Dept. of State Pub.No. 3080 (1949), p.330.

Can you name one of the voluminous war crimes that the US has been held responsible for?

Can you name one US official that has been held to account for any of the vicious war crimes the US has committed?

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@JTT,

Where has Doctor gotz to?

And IRFrank - Calling IRFrank 54, IRFrank 54, where are you?

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@JTT,

If you click on their names, you will see they haven't posted since yesterday around lunch. In Frank's case, going days without posting is not uncommon.

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@engineer,

I'll just wait patiently then, E.

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@JTT,

This is not my life. I have some bug infested pear trees to attend to. Also, I try very hard to not get involved in this mean spirited banter. Some times I fail. I come here to get different views and opinions. When they turn to rhetoric and repetitive nonsense I stop listening. Doesn't mean I feel superior, it's just not a productive use of my time or mental energy.

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@IRFRANK,

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Also, I try very hard to not get involved in this mean spirited banter.

What was mean spirited about my response to you?

IRFrank:

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You are sad because you only have a single focus, the evil USA.

What is sad about attempting to stop the leading terrorist nation on the planet, Frank?

Are the people of the Simon Wiesenthal Center sad for trying to bring German war criminals to justice? Do German war criminals differ materially from US war criminals, from US terrorists?

IRFrank:

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In fact, man has been spreading death and destruction on himself long before the US existed. Do 'we' do the same. Yes, but this is hardly new. We are a violent and destructive species.

And these violent and destructive groups have to be exposed and stopped, just as the Nazis were stopped.

IRFrank:

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I do not approve of much of of what those in power do in the name of their own righteousness, regardless of the nation they lead, their religious position, or their own self proclaimed innocence.

Neither did the US.

"If certain acts of violation of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them, and we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us."
Robert H Jackson
International Conference on Military Trials, London, 1945, Dept. of State Pub.No. 3080 (1949), p.330.

Can you name one of the voluminous war crimes that the US has been held responsible for?

Can you name one US official that has been held to account for any of the vicious war crimes the US has committed?

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@JTT,

Generally I do not disagree about much of what you say. I just don't see the relevance to the original point of this thread. And at this point in history we (USA) can be made out as the evil empire. As I said, I see the problem as a human problem, not any one country. Generally, the winner gets to make the rules and punish the loser. Not right in any way. I am not a flag waver. Nationalism is often a bad thing that leads to abuse of power. This has been proven over and over throughout history. As an individual I have found any involvement in politics very frustrating. It's all about power and taking advantage of the 'other' guy. My choice at the moment is to not make it part of my world. I'm not sure what response you want to your posts. They are single minded and repetitive. What is it you want us to do or say? I responded the way I did initially because I thought you derailed the thread with a response that had nothing to do with the thread. Does the transgressions of the US in any way justify two misguided individuals bombing innocent civilians? Absolutely not. If you see their actions as justified, I think you are an enemy of innocent people everywhere. Humans kill innocent humans. This cannot be justified whether by a terrorist or a government.

The mean spirited comment was unfounded. I apologize. The meanness was not directed toward me. Your single anger toward the USA is misguided. It should be directed toward human violence no matter the source. Expressing it here serves no purpose, other than maybe giving you a forum.

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@IRFRANK,

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I just don't see the relevance to the original point of this thread. And at this point in history we (USA) can be made out as the evil empire.

And you can't see the connection, Frank? I just posted an article by Glenn Greenwald where he listed what every attacker on the US has said as regards the reasons for those attacks.

The attacks had nothing to do with "hating America's freedoms" or any of the other silly memes that we all are daily subjected to. The sole reason was the US's daily killings of Muslims the world over, the theft of their wealth, the brutal mistreatment of those peoples.

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As I said, I see the problem as a human problem, not any one country.
Generally, the winner gets to make the rules and punish the loser. Not right in any way. I am not a flag waver. Nationalism is often a bad thing that leads to abuse of power. This has been proven over and over throughout history.

When the problem was Nazis Germany, the world supposedly did what was right. When it was Japan, the world supposedly did what was right. When it was Kosovo, the world supposedly did what was right.

Why does this all become a muddle when it is the US?

"If certain acts of violation of treaties are crimes, they are crimes whether the United States does them or whether Germany does them, and we are not prepared to lay down a rule of criminal conduct against others which we would not be willing to have invoked against us."

Robert H Jackson
International Conference on Military Trials, London, 1945, Dept. of State Pub.No. 3080 (1949), p.330.

Can you name one of the voluminous war crimes that the US has been held responsible for?

Can you name one US official that has been held to account for any of the vicious war crimes the US has committed?

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As an individual I have found any involvement in politics very frustrating.

Tell me about it!

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It's all about power and taking advantage of the 'other' guy. My choice at the moment is to not make it part of my world. I'm not sure what response you want to your posts. They are single minded and repetitive. What is it you want us to do or say?

Why not simply stop the lies? Is that such a terrible thing to hope for?

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Does the transgressions of the US in any way justify two misguided individuals bombing innocent civilians? Absolutely not. If you see their actions as justified, I think you are an enemy of innocent people everywhere. Humans kill innocent humans. This cannot be justified whether by a terrorist or a government.

That's the first thing people leap to when someone wants to discuss the hard issues. "You're justifying the actions of the terrorists".

Discussing why these events are occurring is not at all to justify these events. Noting that they will continue, very likely with greater frequency and greater damage, is not justifying them.

That has been one of Frank Apisa's main points: the attacks are gonna get bigger and more frequent. No one has accused him of justifying the attacks.

But, how are the actions of these two young men any different, except that they are miniscule in a scalar sense, to the illegal invasions of two sovereign nations, Iraq & Afghanistan and all the war crimes, the immense suffering, the ongoing damage that, again, makes Boston look like a picnic in the park?

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Your single anger toward the USA is misguided. It should be directed toward human violence no matter the source. Expressing it here serves no purpose, other than maybe giving you a forum.

You cannot deny, if fact, you've already agreed, that the US is thee current world Nazi group. It has been for over a century, all the while hiding behind reams of propaganda. Just the last part should royally piss anyone off.

It continues this equivalent of Nazi terror to this day.

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