raprap
 
  4  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 07:44 am
@H2O MAN,
The Problem with Romney!!!!!

He Lost--He Lost BIG!!!!!

Waterdude--You need to take your head out of Karl Roves ass and look around--

It President Obama!

Rap
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 08:08 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

http://rlv.zcache.com/obama_is_the_problem_stickers-p217312513436269890en87f_216.jpg

Ah yes.... It's that "personal responsibility" that conservatives are so fond of claiming we all should practice.

Personal responsibility = blame the black guy.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 02:01 pm
@parados,
It's actually quite disturbing how so many of you look at Obama and only see "a black guy."
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 02:28 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It's actually quite disturbing how so many of you look at Obama and only see "a black guy."


How do you know that's what they 'only' see? It's certainly what they accuse conservatives of mostly seeing.

0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 08:52 pm
@H2O MAN,
And you're just plain ignorant
0 Replies
 
juliazoe4
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 05:33 am
@Setanta,
Obama is ignorant about American history
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 05:34 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
obama is the least "black guy" i've ever seen

vanilla ice is blacker than obama

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 06:39 am
@njpchevorlet,
njpchevorlet wrote:

Why are you pro-Obama? I dont get very political, however I have family in Australia and Ireland and they too are happy he won the election, why was it so important, in your opinion, that he won?


I can't speak for Fil, but the main reason I was relieved to see Obama get in is George W Bush. His presidency resulted in us getting caught up in an illegal war in Iraq, complicity in war crimes, extraordinary rendition and terrorist bombings in London. In short a lot of British people are dead because of George W Bush, and Tony Blair's inability to do the right thing.

Another, important reason, is that Obama's economic policies are actually producing growth, unlike our Tory government's obsession with deficit reduction which has lead to a double dip recession and a stagnating economy. Romney'seconomic policies would cause global stagnation.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:24 am
@izzythepush,
Hang on izzy--The House of Commons, both branches of Congress and a UN resolution voted for it. Overwhelning majorities in the first three.

Many countries joined the coalition.

I'm not arguing in favour please note. I don't vote.

And your comparison is made against stuff that didn't happen which it is easy to think of idealistically.

Nation means war. A nation is a predatory entity using force (military action) or fraud (diplomacy). Evolved to be. No evolutionist can make a judgement on it realistically.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:47 am
@spendius,
You're forgetting that, unlike America, the vast majority of the UK population were opposed to the war, the amount of people marching against it was unprecedented. The only reason the House of Commons voted for the war was because they'd been lied to about WMDs.

The organisers of the 7/7 bombings cited Iraq as the reason they blew themselves up.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:57 am
@izzythepush,
I don't remember the "vast majority" being against the war and I don't know what "unprecedented" means.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 10:00 am
@izzythepush,
What was your alternative policy?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 12:13 pm
@spendius,
Not allow British troops to take part in the invasion of Iraq.
Refuse the use of UK airbases for extraordinary rendition.
Allow Hans Blix to do his job.

I did say this at the time, but was unaware of the extraordinary rendition.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 01:46 pm
@izzythepush,
Not joining the coalition would have had serious consequences. It took a lot of forcing to get the Americans to the UN and a resolution passed.

Quote:
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolution 660, Resolution 661, Resolution 678, Resolution 686, Resolution 687, Resolution 688, Resolution 707, Resolution 715, Resolution 986, and Resolution 1284).

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by Iraqi troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."


Notice "unanimously". The Blix report to the UN SC of Jan. 27 2003 is a catalogue of Iraqi non-compliance with the inspectors and thus Resolution 687 (1991), which was still in force, legally justified military action. Resolution 1441 (Nov 2002) specifically stated that Iraqi was in material breach of 687. And Blix agreed.

The US had 250,000 troops in the region which couldn't be held in readiness while a diplomatic dance took place possibly lasting until the ghastly summer arrived and, in effect, giving Saddam victory which he would have played for all it was worth in the Arab world.

For sure the unintended consequences of military action were bad. But they have to be set against any unintended consequences of Saddam remaining in power indefinitely. That's the moral argument. Not to compare the consequences of action against nothing.

It was a tough call but we elect these people to make tough calls and when they do we should accept them as having been made in good faith. How tough they are is pointed up by Mr Obama's 2008 election promise to close Gitmo and here he is starting his 2nd term with it still in full swing.

After the pussy-footing with Hitler and Nasser people had become impatient with the likes of Saddam.

As far as I'm aware the UK had nothing to do with rendition.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 02:41 pm
@spendius,
It did take a lot of forcing to get the Americans to the UN, but when they didn't get the answer they wanted they ignored it.

If UK bases are involved in extraordinary rendition, we're involved.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 02:52 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Not joining the coalition would have had serious consequences.


really?

it didn't hurt Canada
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 03:53 pm
@ehBeth,
Doesn't seem to have done France much harm, either. They probably don't get as much American redneck tourism these days, but i'm sure they're willing to make the sacrifice.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 04:07 pm
@ehBeth,
Canada doesn't count Beth.

It's too busy trying to come to terms with an impossible climate.

And I assume the French in Canada would have provided the political escape.

I understand Canada had discreetly been of assistance nevertheless.

Not joining the coalition would have had serious consequences here. Some think beneficial ones.



0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 05:37 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Nation means war. A nation is a predatory entity using force (military action) or fraud (diplomacy). Evolved to be.


Quote:
No evolutionist can make a judgement on it realistically.


How do y0u figure?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 05:44 pm
@InfraBlue,
How do you fail to figure?
0 Replies
 
 

 
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