Multi Level Marketing...."pyramids"

I worked for a few as a teenager.

I call 'em all "cults" only half-jokingly.

And I also did the jump in the deep end thing with Kerby.

Another "cult".

This is one of Amway's yachts. I doubt they let the employees take it out on weekends.



Another one of theirs docks where I spend part of my summer. Huge 130'+ power yacht that dwarfs just about everything else in the marina. DeVoss and VanAndel's cult seems to be quite profitable.

I had a girlfriend who worked for one (Mary Kay). She kept it in perspective and did not quit her day job and used it mostly for extra cash. She even got one of the cars, an Oldsmobile. Not to my mind a bargain. I think calling them a cult is not too far off the mark. I had a difficult time taking all the propaganda seriously, but she did. I think part of the attraction that these schemes have for people is that it feeds their ego and makes them feel like somebody while they are being used by the people at the top.

I heard those two guys are worth around 6 billion combined.

I can definitiely say it's a cult like atmosphere. The "owner" of the office, his goal is to get, and keep as many people under him as possible to sell the product. They'll sell you on things like "you can't listen to the negatives your friends and family tell you...in a couple years when you're reeling it in, they'll still be stuck in the same 9 to 5 rut."

Even though 99.99% of the people who do it don't succeed, alot of these companies have excellent structure(to benefit the owner, not the sales force).

I have a friend who has been in four of the damn things, over the years - and guess who is expected to come to the bloody parties - and HAVE them? I have drawn the line at that - though I did try for her second to last product...what was it? Hmmm...oh, Enjo - I mean I am happy to support less chemicals around the house. But - nobody I knew would have a bar of it, and I got the full guilt treatment for that. Frankly, it drives me nuts.

She said the Enjo people tried to make you feel bad if you didn't sell a lot. I don't recall her complaining of pressure from Mary Kay or Amway or the current one, Nutrimetics.

She was very unhappy, always, in her job as a teacher - so I think has always been vulnerable to these things.

I don't know anyone else who has ever been part of one.

Hello,

Just to put my two cents in, I guess it's just a matter of finding those people who are drawn to this type of adventure. I happen to love network marketing. Not only does it allow me a residual income for quite some time, but it also has broadened my friendship base.

I've been working with my current company since April of last year and it has replaced my part-time income as a Realtor and as the company grows so do my checks.

I don't feel that I am putting any pressure on anyone to sign up because I look at it this way. If I have to sell them on network marketing, then they truly aren't looking for what I have offer and in turn I would have to keep reuniting them with the idea. That creates more work for me than I choose. So I look for those who can benefit from the products I myself use and those who can visualize the end result of recruiting.

It's a win win situation for everyone involved. Good products and residual income.

So the next time someone approaches you about a homebased business that involves network marketing, they are just asking if you would be interested and I hope you say, "No, but I might be interested in your products."

You know, most of the best products on the market today are getting to end line consumer through network marketing. It's big business and even the major brand names are jumping on the band wagon. We are so heavily bogged down with advertisments whether it be bill boards, radio, or newspapers, we as consumer's don't look or listen to half of them. And what about TV, I turn the channel. We're all guilty.


Now that I've given you a dollars worth, thanks for the time.

Jeannie

P.S. Maybe I will see you in the trenches of Network Marketing someday.
You know what they say, "A mind is a lot like a parachute. It works best when it's open."

Let me explain the difference between an upper level associate and a lower level one.


The upper level associate is the one with the yacht.

The lower level associate is the one with a garage full of toilet bowl cleaner they can't sell.

Very good cjhsa, concise but to the point

Point well taken...but you didn't ask me how close I was to getting my yacht. You didn't even ask me what kind of products I had in my garage. What makes you think I even have a garage? And how do you know it's toilet bowl cleaner?

Good morning to all...it's a beautiful spring day here and I'm ready to work!

We've all heard of them. Amway, Mary Kay, Nature's Sunshine, Herbalife, NuSkin, Morinda, Melalueca and the list goes on and on.

Network marketing.....why is it so critically explained as organized crime by some and yet so popular with a selected few as innovative marketing?

Could it be that the ones who distaste this industry are the very ones who got in and failed? Failure: noun 1. lack of success. 2. an unsuccessful person or thing. 3. the omission of expected or required action. 4. an instance or the state of not functioning.

Dr. Charles W. King, a graduate of the Harvard Business School with a doctorate in business administration and a professor of marketing at the University of Illinois in Chicago, has done extensive research into MLM, amassing the most complete and reliable data available on this elusive industry in his book The New Professionals. James Robinson, senior vice president and counselor to the president of the U. S. Chamber of Commerce has been supportive of this industry for years.

Work from home! Be your own boss! Set your own hours! Travel! Time Freedom!

Where does it say that Network Marketers cannot or do not work? If you didn't perform the work your employer hired you to do, you'd be fired! The principle is the same for the self employed...no work, no success, no money! As with most endeavors, you get out of it what you put into it!

If you were putting together a team for the NFL, where would you look for players? You'd go after the best players already in the NFL and you would position yourself in front of the best new recruits you could possibly find. Get it? Those who already play the game and those who are willing to take on the challenge.

So you all say the problem here lies in the fact that the majority of network marketers don't make a great deal of money! Could it be that they mistake inventory and activities for action? You know, buy a "garage" full of "toilet bowl cleaner" and then organize their desk for the next year, join in on all the conference calls, read all the books and then cry because they haven't made a dime!

Oh sure, you tell your family about it. But those are usually the first to tell you you're crazy! Then you tell your friends. They're the second ones to say you're crazy. Your glimmer of hope starts to diminish day by day and you loose your dream. You loose your dream because you let your family, friends and possibly someone you don't know say..." Let me explain the difference between an upper level associate and a lower level one. The upper level associate is the one with the yacht. The lower level associate is the one with a garage full of toilet bowl cleaner they can't sell."

Finally, the true spirit of the so called network marketer comes out.

Simply put, you're just not cut out for it.

Have a great day! :wink:

Moral of the story: There was an old man, a boy and donkey...

I hear you...I'm not for it, or against it. For one, I think over 90% of these "businesses" are shams. Like anything else, you have the legit opportunities, and the fly by nights. You have to really know what you're getting into. However, the good ones can have pretty good business models, and you can learn alot about marketing through them.

Also, like you said, people fail, and in turn many justify their failure by putting the company down. However, with alot of these, if you have the drive, skill, and brains to make it to a high level of income....then you could succeed in the corporate world as well. The company I worked for basically drilled it into your head that THIS was THE opportunity of a lifetime, and if you quit, it's because you don't possess what it takes to succeed. But there was only one person there making enough money to live: the owner.

I think it's great that you were able to replace your previous part time income with this. You really have to believe in the product you're selling to do well, which sounds like you do...what is it you're doing, by the way, Ladyw?

I have to go find a link describing the company I worked for in good detail...

http://wolfram.org/scam/ds_max/index.html

I have a friend who sold through a pyramid type cleaning products group. I hadn't seen her in a while; we used to work together. When I met her and we had lunch, I felt as I listened as if she had been taken over and was speaking as a "pod". While I don't doubt that her views ensconced in us against them terms were now her own, and I hadn't been around while she developed them, they seemed to me the kind of views you adapt as yours after one very convincing lecture, a little belligerant and not quite from the person I knew. 'A little creepy', my thought at the time.

Same here. One of my good friends got in a company I thought just reeked. He was selling vitamins, cleaning products, and water filtration products. First, he had to buy all the merchandise. First sign: if a company makes you spend money to work for them...run away.

Second, the products sucked, and were overpriced. Don't always believe the "no middle man" stuff. His vitamins were so expensive it was insane. Of course he didn't want to listen to my opinon on that...especially since I'm into the whole fitness/supplement stuff, and he wasn't at all. His shower water filter was selling for about $150...I found them online for well under $100.

Then I went to a meeting with him at the company. The office manager wanted me to sign up...I had to be nice to my friend...that was tough not to laugh at her. It just wasn't that well of a run organization, and I so wanted to tell her she was peddling overpriced, no name crap.

I have another friend who works for Primerica, a financial advisory company. Although I'm not a huge fan of that company(look it up at ripoffreport.com), according to him he actually makes a decent part time income, and he's an honest/honorable guy. And although he's asked me a bunch of times to go to a meeting with him, he's not pushy on his friends, which is awesome. He's realistic, and views the whole thing like he should.

Good morning...cold in the potato state today but sunny. My tulips are popping up and I see blooms on my magnolia. Today is going to be a good day!

Wow! 90% are shams...that's a pretty big chunk out of the market I'd say. I like to deal in facts myself. Humor me -

History reveals the future...

Out of 15,000 network marketing companies only 23 did over $100,000,000 annually and some of those are out of business

Only a handful made it to $1 billion

What do all these company's have in common?
Follow along with me here....

Mary Kay (1963) is doing about$1.6 billion in annual sales
JFK assassination
6.7 % unemployment rate
Cuban Missile Crisis

(Nature's Sunshine NATR) Herbalife (1975) $2 Billion in annual sales
8.5% unemployment rate
Nixon
Oil Embargo

NuSkin International (1984) $1 Billion
7.6 % unemployment rate
Reagan
Iran war

Morinda (1992) $300 million
6.5% unemployment rate
Bush
Gulf War


These companies had converging forces propelling them to success. Just like the company I am with right now is being propelled. I'm with the only company right now that has all these converging forces behind it. The same converging forces that were behind each of these MLM giants.

With or without me, or with or without you, my company will be the next billion dollar company because of these converging forces.

First of all you need the right company, the right products, market trends, timing in the company and the economy and money.

You see, I found a company that is brand new to the US so that makes it a ground floor opportunity. We have products that you can't get anywhere else. And we are backed financially by one of the company's listed above. If we are being backed by one of the company's above that's like Toyota backing Lexus. They've already been proven successful once and they have the money to back another campaign.

We've been tossing back and forth the credibility of MLM and possible business ethics. What about the credibility and ethics in the corporate world. Where's the loyalty? Where's the compassion? Where's the joy?
It's an 8 to 5 JOB (with title I have to add) that you've devoted your career life to in order to work your way up the ladder for 20 to 25 years only to be dumped by corporate downsizing just before retirement. Technology is using 1 person to do what it used to take 3 people to do.
The job market simply sucks. How many college kids do you know that actually got a JOB in the area in which they studied?

And most people are generating their income in a linear manor. That means you exchange a unit of time for a unit of money. If you don't work, you don't get paid. What most find out is that there simply isn't enough units of time to exchange for that money to create any kind of wealth. And your boss is the one making the money because of your efforts!

So in my book, I prefer to work hard to create a leveraged income that in turn creates a residual income. How many businesses can you work really hard at for 2 or three years that will pay you for the next 20?

There in lies another problem. There isn't any security in anything we do...we just have a choice as to which lifestyle we are willing to risk. I'm willing to risk my next 2 years on the following 20. Not just for the sake of risk either. I've looked into every aspect of my company, from meeting with the president to touring their R & D facility. It's all there...it's a complete package.

One would do well to educate themselves on the facts. You see, anyone can work the corporate world and at the same time work with a MLM company part time. On a casual basis. After all, I just share my product knowledge and offer another means of income. Like going to a good movie and telling someone how good it was or wasn't. Casual conversation.

So casually I will tell you that yes, my products are expensive. But that's what happens when you want quality. (I hate that word. What is quality anyway?) And I will tell you that my company is SYNERGY Worldwide and is owned by Nature's Sunshine. You see, Nature's Sunshine backed Herbalife in the same manner as they have us. They knew when we exploded on the market scene in Japan that they didn't want us as their competitor. So they offered to buy us. At first the founders said no. But they realized that between their products and NS financial backing it was a winner!

So in a nutshell, we have it all. Just like the ones above! History is revealing itself in a fast way with Synergy.

Have a great day! :wink:

Is this Craven's "mom"?

In the company I worked for, they promised riches if you worked hard, and pointed out all the negatives of working in a corporate, "9 to 5" world....

I now know that company, less than 1% of the people who get in will ever make it to the "owner" stage, where it is hyped if you own your own office, you make a ton of money and have people branch out under you...and so on(www.dsmaxtheaftermath).

Out of those 1% of people who make it to ownership, most barely break even. Reading about this company at a website message board filled with former employers posting thier experiences, you actually don't own anything, and they can shut you down for any reason. If you make $20K in your first year, it's not bad.

My first year working full time I made $50K, in sales. What's MLM? Sales. There's no ceiling on many sales jobs. I do agree about working in a typical corporate ladder job...it may(or may not) take a long time to get to a good income level. However, alot of the MLM companies exaggerate on both sides: that you'll never make good money working a "normal" job, and you'll get rich workign for them in 4 years. Currently, I'm starting a sales job that DOES give me the opportunity to residual income, and eventually build a team. Except I'm now making much more money than most "owners" at the MLM firm I worked for, which is built on lies, and selling people dreams. I also get benefits, 401K, and awesome sales experience.

That MLM company I worked for(DS Max) is also a global, huge company that makes tons of money overall. Some of their clients are Papa Johns, and AT&T. Means everyone does well there, right? Hell no. Except only a small handful of executives make the money, while a bunch of brainwashed people are ruining their financial situations by working there...it's a cycle that doesn't stop. I made $1500 in three months, which was probably on the high side of average.

I'm not bashing all MLM's, or yours at all. There are some legit ones with good opportunities. But anyone promising riches in a handful of years is most likely full of it. And most aren't promoting products, they're promoting opportunity. Any real breakthrough product is going to make the retail market, pure and simple. Like the one my friend worked for, the products sucked. The main similarities between an MLM, and a "real" job(especially sales), is the harder you work, how well you develop your skills and deal closing, you'll suceed. There's no magic formula, or incredible company everyone who signs up for will get rich off of.

I certainly agree with everything you just said. One cannot dispute that.

I, personally, found the right company in which I want to work hard for and promote their products and their opportunity. Let the facts speak for themselves. The right mlm company truly only comes about every 10 years.

But even if you get into a more mature MLM it's still a win situation. You have the opportunity to great products that you won't find in the traditional market place.

I personally can offer you two products right now that you cannot buy in any department store or retail outlet. However, I blatantly tried to show you this morning and it was edited out real quick. Oop's!

Thank you for your candid response. You and I both know that MLM companies do work. Just not fast for the normal person (that I am). But it can and it does. It just takes the same effort that you would put into any other business dealing. For success to happen their has to be consistent effort.

I look forward to furthering our discussion. I'm not promising anyone anything. The only promise I make is to myself. That I will succeed. And I tell myself that every morning before I take on the world of "toilet bowl cleaners".

Oh by the way...how should I address you in the future?

Keep Grin'n
P.S. You know the saying, "I'm shooting for the moon"? Well I don't care if I only hit the stars!

May the converging forces find you someday! I only hope I'm the one who shows you the way...