Jesus, what did he really say?

The Anointed
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 05:10 am
neologist wrote ..... Whatever Jesus may have said, as a Jew, he would have read Solomon and understood that ". . . the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . ." ( Ecclesiastes 9:5)

RESPONSE ....... Jesus understood Ecclesiastes for what it was, the satirical work of Solomon aimed at those who believed in neither life after the first death, or the resurrection.

The book of Job, a number of the Psalms, Parables, Ecclesiastes, and the Wisdom of Solomon, all belong to the Hogmah or Wisdom Literature of the Hebrews, ‘Mashal’ means Similitude, parable, or proverb.----- In the book of Sirach, R, H, Charles translation chapter 47 verse 17, it is written concerning Solomon, “By thy songs, parables, dark speeches, and SATIRES, thou didst cause astonishment to the peoples etc.”

“Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. I envy those who are dead and gone; they are better off than those who are still alive. But better off than either, are those who have never been born etc. A man may have a hundred children and live a long time, but no matter how long he lives, if he does not get his share of happiness and does not receive a descent burial, then I say that a baby born dead is better off. Man and animal receive the same ultimate reward, total oblivion, from the dust they came and to the dust they shall return. A wise man is no better off than a fool, the reward for doing good is the same as that for doing evil, so don’t be too good or too wise, Why kill yourself?

We are all going to our final resting place, and although life is useless, the conclusion of the matter is, if you live a religious life you may at least experience some peace in the short span of consciousness that has been allocated to you in this useless life.

So go ahead and eat, drink and be merry, drink your wine and be cheerful. It’s all right with God. Enjoy your life with the woman you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all that you’ll get for all your troubles.

Never again will you take part in anything that happens in the world, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead to where the righteous, the wicked, the wise and the fools, animal and man, are all going. For the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.”

Solomon’s songs are found in his book, ‘SONG OF SONGS,’ his parables are found in his book of 'PROVERBS', his dark speeches are in the ‘WISDOM OF SOLOMON,’ and who can read the negative and even depressing words from the book of ‘Ecclesiastes without realizing that here is the SATRICAL work of Solomon, aimed at those who believed in neither life after death, or the resurrection from the dead.
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Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2021 07:26 am
It's important to know that Jesus had a number of "false" parables. That is, Jesus spoke of two main things.

"The kingdom of heaven is like..."
" The master... "

While it is tempting to see the master as God, I think much of the problem of 20th century Christianity is thar they have been stuck in a sort of spiritual rut, thinking they understand the passage by a simple read.

The "kingdom of heaven" parables are an accurate (bur sometimes cryptic) account of life in God's presence.
The "master" parables however seem to be a sort of challenge. As if to ask the Pharisees, "Is this your version of God?" The master in these stories often brutally punishes people for a seemingly minor crime ( casting someone into the outer darkness for not having the proper clothing). In the parable of the talents, the interest that he advises the poor servant to collect is unlawful for Jews to collect. That is, the Pharisees are regarding God as a harsh punisher who takes away from those who only wish to keep what they have. These parables go back to back, finally ending in a master who separates the sheep and the goats.

In other words, while it is tempting to read this as "all the people that I hate will be punished", what Jesus instead is saying is that a world that lives with a bunch of judgemental assholes wouldn't end well for the very people hoping for this. But remember, the person mentioned is "the master" not God.
Frequently, the Pharisees give an answer to Jesus's questions and it seems like they followed along with the parable. But then he condemns them, not for their answer but their inability to follow their own standards.
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