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Izzy, I Hope That This Will Please U

 
 
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2012 05:10 pm

Izzy, I found this information in my e-mail today.
I hope that it pleases u:


Homeowners win right to use lethal force on burglars:
'Disproportionate levels of violence' backed

a.. New laws could allow use of lethal force against criminals
b.. Law changes meant to 'dispel doubts' over right to fight intruders
c.. Justice Secretary Chris Grayling to reassure homeowners over their rights
d.. David Cameron says he has been burgled twice and wants the law
to protect people who stand up to intruders


By James Slack and James Chapman



PUBLISHED: 17:09 EST, 8 October 2012 | UPDATED: 03:47 EST, 9 October 2012





Crackdown: Chris Grayling wants to 'dispel doubts' over the right
to fight off intruders

The long campaign to give householders the right to use maximum
force against burglars will end in victory today.

Chris Grayling will announce he is changing the law to allow people
to use 'disproportionate' levels of violence to protect themselves
and their families.

The Justice Secretary said it would 'dispel doubts once and for all'
over the right to fight back against intruders.

David Cameron today said that after being burgled twice he wanted
people to know the law will allow them to protect their property.


The new rules could, in some cases, allow for lethal force.

The move is designed to remove the threat of burglary victims being
arrested - let alone charged - if they use violence to drive the
intruder away or stop him from advancing through their homes.

Currently, householders are entitled to use only 'reasonable' force.

The change satisfies the demands of MPs and campaigners since Norfolk
farmer Tony Martin was imprisoned for shooting dead a burglar in 1999.

The call for action gathered momentum after the murder of financier
John Monckton, who died from stab wounds in his Chelsea home in 2004.

Last month a judge warned that burglars who break into country homes
can expect to be shot at by their victims if they are licensed gun holders.


There have been a string of changes to the law in recent years - including
one made by Kenneth Clarke last year, but ministers have always
stopped short of delivering on the right to use 'disproportionate force'.

Mr Cameron today said he had been burgled twice while living in
North Kensington in London, including one occasion when raiders
'loaded up my Skoda and drove off'.

The Prime Minister told Sky News: 'It's a horrible feeling when your
house has been invaded and your privacy has been invaded and you
don't know what they have taken; you don't know what they were doing.'

Asked if he would be 'a fight or a flight' person, Mr Cameron added:
'I think you never know what is going to happen in those circumstances
and I'm not advising people to have a go but the fact is people need
the certainty that if they were in that situation and they did have
to take action to defend themselves then the law is on their side.'

The decision by Mr Grayling to try to change the law as soon as possible
sets down a marker that he intends to be a tough Justice Secretary.
His announcement comes on a day when ministers will make a determined
effort to reassure the public they will crack down hard on crime.

Home Secretary Theresa May will unveil plans to allow crime victims
to decide how the thug should be punished.


They will be offered a menu of sanctions - such as ordering offenders
to pay compensation or fix the damage they have caused.

Any offender who refuses to comply will face stiff action by the police
or the courts. Mr Grayling, who will also promise to toughen community
punishments, will delight the Right with his new law on burglars.

It will mean people who are confronted by a burglar and have
reason to fear for their safety, or their family's safety and in the
heat of the moment use force that later seems 'disproportionate'
will not be guilty of an offence.

This could include the use of lethal force. Only force which is
'grossly' disproportionate will not be permitted.


Mr Grayling said: 'Being confronted by an intruder in your home is
terrifying, and the public should be in no doubt that the law is on
their side. That is why I am strengthening the current law.

'Householders who act instinctively and honestly in self-defence are
crime victims and should be treated that way.

'We need to dispel doubts in this area once and for all, and I am
very pleased to be delivering on the pledge that we made in Opposition.'

The demands for change began when Mr Martin was imprisoned for
killing one burglar and wounding another who entered his Norfolk farm.

More recent cases suggest prosecutors and judges have been giving
greater weight to the legal right of householders to use 'reasonable force'
to defend themselves.

Last month Judge Michael Pert QC spoke out after a lawyer demanded leniency
for a criminal who, he said, had been hit with a shotgun by Andy Ferrie
at his home near Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire, in 'a form of summary justice'.

The judge replied: 'If you burgle a house in the country where the
householder owns a legally held shotgun, that is the chance you take.
You cannot come to court and ask for a lighter sentence because of it.'

Mr Grayling's move follows changes made by his predecessor Ken Clarke,
which removed a legal requirement for householders to retreat.

Guidance for police has also been changed to encourage fewer arrests
of those defending their homes.


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OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2012 10:05 pm

I wish that the English woud recognize the Natural Right
of self defense and to immediate access to defensive emergency equipment, in furtherance thereof.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 01:45 am

Most people woud agree that we all share our Fundamental Rights EQUALLY,
e.g., the right to defend our respective, Individual lives. This status is incompatible
with discrimination, which is the innermost essence of licensure.





David
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 02:01 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Yeah. Even some microbes exercise their right to self defense.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 02:26 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
Yeah. Even some microbes exercise their right to self defense.
Some trees have grown defensive spikes
along their trunks against abusive mammoths or mastodons.
Thay did not wait until the 2nd Amendment was enacted to do this.





David
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 06:33 am
@OmSigDAVID,
This is just the Tories puffing and blowing, and making up problems that don't actually exist. Most of what he's announced already exists in law.

As for Tony Martin it wouldn't make any difference, as Martin shot someone in the back who was running away.

They made similar pronouncements about teachers not being able to restrain pupils who were fighting, which was also wrong.

This is typical of the Tories, all mouth and trousers.

See below for what happened prior to Smeagol's (sorry Grayling's announcement.)

Quote:
A 59-year-old man arrested on suspicion of murder following a burglary at his home has been released without charge after it was deemed he had used reasonable force after being confronted by four masked men.

Peter Flanagan, 59, was detained after the death of John Bennell, 27, who died from a stab wound to the chest after a number of masked men, one of whom was armed with a machete, broke into Flanagan's home. He had been due to answer police bail on Monday.

Nazir Afzal, the chief crown prosecutor for the north-west, said: "I have today told the police of my decision that Peter Flanagan should not face any charges in connection with the death of John Bennell, an intruder who broke into his home in Salford on 22 June.

"I am satisfied that Peter Flanagan acted in self-defence after being woken by noises downstairs in his house shortly before midnight. On investigating the disturbance he was confronted by intruders, one of whom was armed with a machete.

"In a case such as this I have to ask myself whether the use of force was necessary and whether it was reasonable in the circumstances. People are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/22/stabbed-burglar-death-no-charges
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 08:12 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
This is just the Tories puffing and blowing,
and making up problems that don't actually exist.
Most of what he's announced already exists in law.
Congratulations. I thawt it was worse,
more dangerous in England for innocent victims of burglary.




izzythepush wrote:
As for Tony Martin it wouldn't make any difference,
as Martin shot someone in the back who was running away.
Is that undisputed, Izzy??
Does everyone agree about that ?




izzythepush wrote:
They made similar pronouncements about teachers
not being able to restrain pupils who were fighting,
which was also wrong.
I don't understand.
That seems like confused thinking.
No one shud be shot for fighting.
To my mind, that does not make sense.
I know of no one who has taken a contrary position.
(This is not to deny that the victim of a criminal assault
[e.g., George Zimmerman, in Florida] is perfectly within
his rights to defend himself from criminal violence.)





izzythepush wrote:
This is typical of the Tories, all mouth and trousers.
I am perplexed.
Politicians r expected to operate their mouths,
in the exercize of their responsibilities.
I fail to discern the significance of their clothing.
I 'm sure that u had a good concept there,
but I don't know what it was.





izzythepush wrote:
See below for what happened prior to Smeagol's
(sorry Grayling's announcement.)
With all respect,
candor moves me to confess
that I do not recognize all of the cited names.





Quote:
A 59-year-old man arrested on suspicion of murder following a burglary at his home has been released without charge after it was deemed he had used reasonable force after being confronted by four masked men.

Peter Flanagan, 59, was detained after the death of John Bennell, 27, who died from a stab wound to the chest after a number of masked men, one of whom was armed with a machete, broke into Flanagan's home. He had been due to answer police bail on Monday.

Nazir Afzal, the chief crown prosecutor for the north-west, said: "I have today told the police of my decision that Peter Flanagan should not face any charges in connection with the death of John Bennell, an intruder who broke into his home in Salford on 22 June.

"I am satisfied that Peter Flanagan acted in self-defence after being woken by noises downstairs in his house shortly before midnight. On investigating the disturbance he was confronted by intruders, one of whom was armed with a machete.

"In a case such as this I have to ask myself whether the use of force was necessary and whether it was reasonable in the circumstances. People are entitled to use reasonable force in self-defence to defend themselves, their family and their property."
Permit me to offer the following observation:
if innocent victims be so unfortunate as to have violent predators
(human or not) fall upon them in malice, it behooves them to fight for their lives
with as much energy, dedication and lethal skill as is likely to effect their survival
of the event, NOT to be calculating and reflecting upon their optimal forensic strategy
in defense of anticipated criminal litigation in the heat & blood of the moment.
Self preservation can be IMPORTANT.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 08:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
u]un[/u][/b]disputed, Izzy??
Does everyone agree about that ?

Yeah, pretty much.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 08:26 am
@izzythepush,
The entrance wounds of the shotgun pellets (or slug)
were in the back? Only ?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 08:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
See below for what happened prior to Smeagol's
(sorry Grayling's announcement.)
With all respect,
candor moves me to confess
that I do not recognize all of the cited names.


From your original post.

Quote:
Chris Grayling wants to 'dispel doubts' over the right
to fight off intruders


Maybe this cartoon will help clear things up.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Admin/BkFill/Default_image_group/2012/4/10/1334065877695/Steve-Bells-If--11.04.201-001.jpg
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 08:28 am
@OmSigDAVID,
In the case of the guy running away they were.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 08:34 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
In the case of the guy running away they were.
Lemme get this straight.
Concerning the decedent:
were the gunshot wounds inflicted only to his back?

(If a shotgun was used by Defendant, then presumably
there was no overpenetration.)
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2012 12:19 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
This is your hobbyhorse David, why don't you do the googling?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2012 12:36 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
This is your hobbyhorse David,
why don't you do the googling?
Well, its your scandal, but OK. I will.





David
0 Replies
 
 

 
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