What IS it with metaphors - (and parables)?

Because it gives us an entirely new way of looking at something through association?

Hmm - yes - but I do wonder about the thrill of it...sometimes - do you get the thrill?

I have long thought of creative ability as a metaphorical ability. Sometimes sculptors will speak of the "living stone," with the work they create resident in the medium, and their work a process of "freeing" that image from the theretofore undifferentiated mass of stone.

Someone who invents, or creates, must be able to see the desired end in their minds before beginning. Although that may be a vague vision, one which hasn't the detail of the end product, they still need to be able to see "that which is not" in order to take the series of steps to arrive at that goal, so that it becomes "that which is." Perhaps the thrill to which you allude, Our Dear Wabbit, is that minor feeling of epiphany which one experiences in suddenly seeing reality by seeing "that which is not," and relating it to a possible reality. Perhaps your thrill is the vicarious experience of the creative.

Hmmm - yes - I sort of suggested that...co-creating reality.

I wonder, too, if something about the "aha" or "clunk" - you know, when the li'l widgets in the kaleidoscope change shape - that hits our "natural high" chemicals.

Do you know (blush) when working, or discussing, there is an almost sexual thrill when pieces fall into place - either when I get a new realization about something, or when I give it - and see the result.

I wonder - do artists get this thrill when a piece of work is just right?

Heehee - the sexualish feeling fits in with the creation aspect, no, Setanta?


Am I alone, and hence - gasp - perverse?

It's ok, you're just drawn that way.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, i would be the last to suggest that you're not perverse, Our Dear Wabbit, far be it from me not to give credit where due. My life is largely interior, in that i've never pursued an avocation, but simply taken advantage of my talents and skills to get the best paying job i could. I don't look for fulfillment in my working life. When insights or new ideas strike me as i read and study, i don't know that i'd characterize them as sexual experience, but i do become very agitated. Sometimes i lie awak for hours, unable to sleep because i've been seized by an idea. Sometimes i literally cannot sit still, and wander about aimlessly, carrying on an internal dialogue. This usually is a private matter; but i've sometimes caught myself walking down the street mumbling to myself when a sudden thought has put the pieces together, as in your kaleidoscope simile. As i'm a rather physically large person, i usually become aware of this when i notice that people are giving we wide-eyed looks, and lots of room on the sidewalk.

i use analogies to make abstract concepts in science more understandable.If, however, I find students repeating these analogies too much, we then have to go through a process to determine whether they really picked up on the central point of the exercise
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INDIVIDUAL Also, we use verbal tools, analogy, metaphor,to represent something with which we are comfortably familiar to introduce something that is quite unknown unknown to our students. Sometimes being a teacher you have to spend time being a stand up comedian, or at least someone who doesnt get lost in the secret language of your craft.

Its easy to get lost in jargon, complex"ten dollar" terms and flowery language. Its much more difficult to be succinct and to speak simply.

I remember a line from a critique of a speech made by a professional. He was critcized for being so long and using such difficult language.
"If I had more time, I could have made it simpler"
i enjoy reading the late Jay Gould, both , because he was a brilliant scientist, and he served a s a great example of how nOT to write technical and popular science. He was often pompous, he was fond of making really vague references and he often dwelled in the minutae and never got back on the rail road of his topic.
DEB -youre a therapist no? Must you carefully sift through your metaphors to see you dont leave undesirable indelible marks on your clients?

i find that elementary teachesr are the worst when it comes to being creative in their use of language and experience skills to which the kids can relate. they use all that edubabble in their classes and , in my school district, they dont reach into translating their lesson plans into the experience of the kids. Perhaps its because , for someone like me, the gap between me and graduate students (experientially) isnt as great as that of the elementary teacher and the elementary student. Its maybe, really hard to think way back as a kid. I can goof on a student who has a deep ignorance of geography or history and thatll usually be enough for them to go and wise up, but for elementary students the concept of 'goofing on the student" can be traumatic to the little ones.

Metaphors are night goggles for the mind. You see "not through a glass darkly" but through a glass more clearly.

LOL! Sounds a lot like the state we describe as being in love, Set!

I know - I get very excited about ideas, sometimes - but more often about debate and "riffs" in conversation.

Is it all connected?

Is it about forming new synapses - is there just one excitement button in our bodies, which all purposes use? - as our eyes convey all info in terms of light, so a loud noise is a flash of light, or a bright light a booming in the ears (they are for me, anyway).

I believe I am rambling...

No, you're just passionate.

Farmerman - I must be incredibly careful. But - 'tis an art, not a science - and there is no controlling the input when once it is in there...though the oddities of interpretation are very revealing. AND - there is also the whole question of the right to metaphorize people's lives - but, I figure they come cos they want things to be different...

Eg - I once had a mother who had a disabled child (one of those formless minimal brain dysfunction sort of things, which are a nightmare) transform my comment about her great patience and creativity in managing her child's VERY difficult behaviours (2 hours sleep a night, just to start with!) into "Your child is so awful I couldn't bear to be in the same room with him for more than five minutes". It said a lot about the buried resentment she had, which we were able to bring out and normalize - but it was an amazing transformation to me.

Passionate - you taking the Mickey, Baalamb? LOL!

We peoples is all crucibles, you know...

As I was writing my response the warp of this fabric had changed from a 2 to an 8 harness . Ive never thought much of the use of, creation of, or the delivery of, examples by metaphor or analogy as anything "artistic'" Its how i view knowledge itself--Knowledge, to me, is nothing more than a tool,
Conveying it so that a large bunch of students or clients"get it" is satisfying and part of my pay.
So , while relieved that my metaphors were caught or my analogies understood, thats gratifying, but Ive never much relived the experiences. (Unless Ive gotta go through the same points with another bunch of students or clients.)
DEb -I can see your careful use of language as a therapeutic tool. Goddam, thats a responsibility that must weigh upon your mind. Do you play the therapies among colleagues so that youve got some consensus? or is each attendance a new dialogue in which you have less control than youd like?

You have all my respect, as Id gone through some decompression and treatment after a series of violent incidents led to lots of chemical abuse . Short story, I had some therapists who were really sharp and knew I liked mind games enough that they used that in my customized therapy. i always look back on that as an interesting meld of data and practice.It worked, I believe. i can even enjoy fireworks and im not spooked at explosives.

I've read, and it may well be apocryphal, that the gentleman who discovered the benzene ring dreamed of a snake swallowing its tail. Made lots of money for I. G. Farben, whatever the stimulus. "Life is like a . . ." similes abound, and are usually worth about as much as one paid to hear them (and if you are prone to attend seminars in which someone explains such things to you, please contact me by PM to arrange your next seminar, my rates are very reasonable). Since my interior life has been largely devoted to history, biography and period literature, the connections i make tend to be the synthesis of what i've read. The interal dialogue on the subjects is very useful, as it helps me avoid burning a mental pathway for what proves to be erroneous or specious. I love metaphor, but i'll be damned if i can think of any examples in which it has helped me understand my particular obsessions.

Hmmmm - perhaps our thoughts about artistic are too narrow?

Yes, Set - I speak of inspired meatphors. But what you say is interesting. Perhaps we have different sensitivities, and my excitostat is set differently, or for different things?

Farmerman - I can trot out tried and true metaphors for very familiar situations - I have a stable I try for emotionally, physically and sexually abused kiddies for example - but often such things arise from the dialogue with the particular family/client, and a careful watch must be kept to see what language, if any, is "catching".

As a team, we do discuss things very excitedly amongst ourselves - and borrow descriptions and metaphors from each other (this is not all we do, of course!) - I think most of us share my excitement about the work and the language we use in it.

I am a very language based person, so I generate all sorts of stuff all the time. Lots of it jokes. Actually, I use humour a lot in therapy, too.

set, I may take you up on that offer for "making analogies that the little dears can transfer from one discipline to an abstraction within another". It can be a real day killer when , loaded with compelling beautiful equations that the kids can grasp, I feel early that , Im losing the battle for some damn reason and I need to have little sidetracks where examples from nature can be drawn. sometimes they dont exist but usually the trouble is finding the right ones

Ive heard that snake story about Fred Kekule who was supposed to have co-discovered bonding in organic chemicals and had this dream about snakes and benzene or aniline , forget which.