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Questions to those who do or do not doubt Theosophy.

 
 
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:43 pm
How is the practice of theosophy different then occult practice? If it is not different, how can a follower of Christ accept it (either through mind or through spirit)?
 
fresco
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 12:14 am
@mymightyrock,
There is no difference between any "practice" which involves the rituals of the word magic of chanting and "prayer". A follower of Jesus' alleged words clearly has the choice of following his example of "good deeds" or otherwise and of rejecting the praising/praying aspects, but that person could not consider himself a member of a "church" which is predicated on ritual.
Fido
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 05:40 am
@mymightyrock,
The ability to deny obvious reality, and to reject reason is essential to the acceptance of theosophy... It is not as difficult as it sounds... People seeking a rational basis for the belief in God soon find the difficulty, but those who reject reason and embrace unquestioned belief find their reward in ecstasy...
mymightyrock
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 10:15 am
@fresco,
It sounds as though you are saying that all beliefs are equal. I have found this to be not true. I have found this through the immediate and tangible reality and through spiritual experience.
In fact, regarding spiritual experience, I became enlightened shortly after being involved with the occult for some time. During that pre-enlightenment, I studied mostly Eastern thought. I also looked at some Western teachings. Aliester Crowley was most interesting to me. Looking back, it baffles me that I considered myself agnostic during this time. The evil-one, and yes I intentionally left the quotation marks off of evil, is very tricky.
The story goes on, but the bottom line is that there is Truth, and the only way to know Him is through Christ. Furthermore, the Word is pretty clear regarding the occult. There is nothing anybody can do to change the truth of this matter. Ignoring it only puts it out of conscience mind (and only temporarily at that) but it remains buried deep within the heart for a person’s entire existence.
Please feel free to respond. Although it is inherently difficult, I am trying to make this as much of a two way conversation as possible. The only way I could see anyone combining Christianity with the occult is by taking scripture and saying that it isn’t necessarily true. This, to me, seems unwise.
mymightyrock
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 10:29 am
@Fido,
I have no difficulty denying human reason. However, there are also rules that govern the spiritual realm. These rules indeed defy what we like to call "reason," however they are not without reason altogether. This is the mystery. Remember that even the demons believe in God.
fresco
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 01:13 pm
@mymightyrock,
Quote:
the bottom line is that there is Truth, and the only way to know Him is through Christ.

Sorry, but as an atheist your capitalization merely indicates to me your self hypnosis through word magic. If you ever consider shedding those mental bonds you might read up on Krishnamurti's rejection of theosophy and all organized religion, without needing to depart from a spiritual path.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 01:39 pm
@mymightyrock,
mymightyrock wrote:

I have no difficulty denying human reason. However, there are also rules that govern the spiritual realm. These rules indeed defy what we like to call "reason," however they are not without reason altogether. This is the mystery. Remember that even the demons believe in God.
No; All demons only say they believe in God, and also that they are doing God's work... Imagine that; God with all that power sitting on the couch eating chips and dip, and expecting everyone to do his work while he gets rounder round the middle... This is the mystery... Why is it everyone saying they are doing God's work is so evil minded???...

Granted; that their reality makes sense to them, but it is a world no human being would or could live in...Just nonsense from end to end all mixed up with human falibility and cruelty... I don't have to explain everything... I don't have to know everything...I don't have to make rules for God to follow or say stuff about demons I don't believe in and cannot prove... I don't have to bribe God to deny my own weakness and death... I don't need earthly power over my fellow beings... I don't need religious sanctions to destroy the earth all all its creatures including my fellow men and women... I have all the excuse I need to be good already, and do not need God to excuse my failures as a human being... All I need is love...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 01:41 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Quote:
the bottom line is that there is Truth, and the only way to know Him is through Christ.

Sorry, but as an atheist your capitalization merely indicates to me your self hypnosis through word magic. If you ever consider shedding those mental bonds you might read up on Krishnamurti's rejection of theosophy and all organized religion, without needing to depart from a spiritual path.
How did you stumble on that little portion of truth without the help of JEEEEEEEZIIIIIIS???

I think his mighty rock is mighty stuck between his mighty ears...
0 Replies
 
mymightyrock
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 01:43 pm
@fresco,
It is interesting to me that you go right for the jugular; out of everything I said, Truth is perhaps the only thing that matters and it is the first thing that you choose to undermine. If you would prefer, I can write in lowercase. The concept is the same, though: it is word magic only if is not true and it is self-hypnosis if in fact there is no god and I do not know him. I maintain that this is not the Case.
All that aside, I really would like to focus on the idea of Theosophy as it relates to Christ and I am afraid our previous tangent may have been my fault. Please consider the following a response to your first post:
There is a difference between practices, obviously, or else there wouldn’t be different practices. Right?
Secondly, I am a follower of Jesus and I practice no rituals that are common to any specific denomination or religion. I do not attend church regularly or have my name in the membership directory of any religious group or organization. That said, I do not object to the idea and actually consider the fellowship to be a worthwhile thing. I just am not bound by that or any other doctrine. Therefore, I am the type of Christian that you describe, the type that, in your theory, should be able to accept Theosophy. However, I am having trouble with the idea for a number of reasons. I am baffled as to how a Christian can put Christ on the same level as just another spiritual leader. I am baffled as to how one can follow Christ and in good conscience engage in occult practices. These are the answers I am after.
mymightyrock
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 01:47 pm
@Fido,
I agree. The person you describe does not know God or Love.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 01:49 pm
@mymightyrock,
Give it a rest mmr... You cannot define truth, or god or any moral forms except by way of another... God is good... Truth is good, good is virtue... Virtue is justice... Justice is God... Okay; Am I any closer to a real definition of these infinite moral forms??? You want to good...Fine... You want to believe.... Believe... If you want to preach, then shove that bible down your throat or up your ass... Live the life you think you must, and if it is as good as you say, you will convince many people that your God also is good...Spare the nonsense; because talk is cheap and action is dear...
mymightyrock
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 02:08 pm
@Fido,
Do you know the life I live? I believe that you believe you do. Even if I were the most horrible sinner in the world and destined for the fires of hell, the discussion is not about me. Furthermore, I am not preaching. There is nothing more to preach. If you do not believe in Christ then I am certainly not going to be the person to convince you otherwise. If you do not believe in Christ, nobody is going to convince you. The reason Jesus commissioned His disciples to spread the gospel was because it needed to be spread; however we are well past that point in history. The discussion is about Theosophy as it relates to Christ. I have not received an answer for this yet.
djjd62
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 02:13 pm
i believe in Thelonius Monk, even more so in Thelonius Monster

0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 03:21 pm
@mymightyrock,
I know how you live, if you call that living... guys like you are a penny a pound, cheap and plentiful, and they want everyone to pay them to talk while everyone else works... do good... show us your faith in works.
mymightyrock
 
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Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 03:44 pm
@Fido,
As far as works go, Christ provided all of the evidence needed. If you cannot believe through His works, then there is nothing I can do to display the truth in love.

Nonetheless, the discussion is not about me and the question at hand remains unanswered.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2012 12:01 am
@mymightyrock,
The question can be answered but probably not to your satisfaction. What you want to know is whether "a believer" can simultaneously be a member of two belief clubs. The answer is usually "no" unless a reform club is established by another hypnotist. In the case of theosophy, two such candidates arose: Gurdjieff and Rudolf Steiner, whose movements still operate to this day.

In the land of the esoteric, the innovator is king.
Fido
 
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Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2012 06:00 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

The question can be answered but probably not to your satisfaction. What you want to know is whether "a believer" can simultaneously be a member of two belief clubs. The answer is usually "no" unless a reform club is established by another hypnotist. In the case of theosophy, two such candidates arose: Gurdjieff and Rudolf Steiner, whose movements still operate to this day.

In the land of the esoteric, the innovator is king.
There are a lot of sunday christians... People just do stuff because everyone they know do it and they don't want to seem bad... The proof of what people are is what they do, and christians are everything their conception of demons is... They are ruthless, cruel people; and individually they are not... It is simply that their churches act as a echo chamber for their prejudices and political nonsense, and gives them the sense that they have the right to screw up the world for everyone else because they are saved...
fresco
 
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Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2012 07:41 am
@Fido,
Of course ! But this guy is asking about a reconciliation between "occultism" with Christianity. The authors I mention attempted just that and attracted many intellectual followers. Indeed modern offshoots have arisen like "The School of Practical Philosophy" which runs evening courses world-wide.
0 Replies
 
mymightyrock
 
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Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2012 07:53 am
@fresco,
Please explain what you mean by "belief club," reform club," and "hypnotist."

I am interested in your response but I do not want to mislead you; I am going to be hard to convince. I am pretty sure that I do not want to be convinced. You probably know this already, but I just want to be fair and verify this in order that we can create some trust between us. That said, I do want to hear what you have to say.
mymightyrock
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2012 08:26 am
@mymightyrock,
I should also add that the question relating to scripture is also out there (at least it seems to be in my mind). Scripture conveys spiritual truths. Each idea has a point and the point is always to help and edify the believer. The spiritual rules are not arbitrary or to make the believer feel elite or to give the believer a sense of power to condemn others (or any other evil reason that some people mistake it to be). The point of the Holy Spirit, the power of goodness that is responsible for the words, is to help people.

Therefore the question is: what is the point of the advice to avoid the occult? If the above paragraph seems debatable, then why? What do Theosophists believe is the reason for the author’s inclusion?
 

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