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Constitutionality be damned

 
 
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 01:54 pm
First it was the huge Auto Bailout. But now again the Government, in the form of presidential proclamation, steps in with aims of questionable constitutionality: "…said …Arizona...Republican Rep. Debbie Lesko, "And so government shouldn't be telling employers…and…businesses to do something against their moral beliefs." ("Employer could inquire about contraceptive use in Arizona," March 16).

In the former case, in spite of my own sinister proclivities (pun intended) I'd agree with the dexter contingent that regardless of jobs saved, when a large organization such as GM engages in dubious business practice it should be allowed to experience bankruptcy. The bailout gives it an unfair advantage over the more prudent carmaker like Ford that didn't fold when things got tough. In the case of contraception however, I'm not so sure.

A quick Googling shows that folk who care about our future estimate that we're overpopulated by a factor of 5 to 20 times so emergency measures of however dubious constitutionality are necessary for our very survival. Consider the state of humanity today with a declining standard of living, worldwide deforestation and pollution….

…...loss of vegetation (over 2 billion hectares of arable land have already been lost, with 16 million more hectares being removed each year) some of which might someday have proven valuable meds; wipeout of already 90 percent of our potential seafood; violent struggles for Lebensraum with hundreds if not thousands of deaths every day; our excretions regularly keeping us off our beaches; even the shortage of potable water in which to bathe so now we're even supposed to turn of the faucet when brushing….
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 02:00 pm
Why all the anger towards GM. They have a huge workforce, they have tightened up their business, paid the loans back.. How was this not good for the American Economy?
Bankrupting them would have gotten you where? This just sounds spiteful, not smart. Businesses like people sometimes make mistakes, should we now set up debtors prisons? If you screw up, you'll pay.. I guess.
dalehileman
 
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Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 03:15 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
Why all the anger towards GM.
Not anger so much but a kind of sorrow in spite of their apparently inkcompetent management

Quote:
They have a huge workforce, they have tightened up their business, paid the loans back.. How was this not good for the American Economy?
I suppose so but then shouldn’t we make up a new rule that says the Government will bail out any unsuccessful org

Quote:
Bankrupting them would have gotten you where?
In a state of bankruptcy. It’s like when every time kiddie something stupid should his mommie always takes care of things

Quote:
This just sounds spiteful, not smart.
Not at all but in a state of wonderment. If we had had a rule in effect allowing such bailout then I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. But now we have to ask whether bankruptcy should be altogether abandoned and replaced by presidential decree

Quote:
Businesses like people sometimes make mistakes, should we now set up debtors prisons?
Yes, in effect, it’s called bankruptcy

Quote:
If you screw up, you'll pay.. I guess.
That’s life
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 03:26 pm
Does this opinion apply to all business or just GM. Should state governments give money to businesses to stay in a state?
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 03:29 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Does this opinion apply to all business or just GM.
Mine or Ceili's

Quote:
Should state governments give money to businesses to stay in a state?
No, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard today
Rickoshay75
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 03:35 pm
@dalehileman,
First it was the huge Auto Bailout. But now again the Government, in the form of presidential proclamation, steps in with aims of questionable constitutionality>"

For the record, the bail-out was passed by Congress under the Bush administration, and had nothing to do with the Constitution.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 03:39 pm
You also realize that the GM bailout wasn't just done with American money, right? The banks got bailouts too. Mind you that was entirely an American bailout, through and through.
Do you have a problem with that too? Or is it just the multinationals that bother you?
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 04:30 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
Do you have a problem with that too? Or is it just the multinationals that bother you?
Oh Ceili did you mean me, Rick, or Rabelr
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RABEL222
 
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Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 04:43 pm
@dalehileman,
Yours.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 05:40 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
entirely an American bailout, through and through.
Do you have a problem with that too?
Yes
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Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 05:59 pm
That's an interesting economic plan. Bankrupt everyone and everything. That'll teach 'em.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2012 09:20 pm
@dalehileman,
WELCOME to the forum, Dale!

I consider myself to be a rigid, orthodox Constitutionalist,
but I 'm slow to reach the conclusion that the US government
has no jurisdiction to grant loans. It has been unchallenged in that for quite a while.





David
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2012 10:25 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
WELCOME to the forum, Dale!
Why thank you Dave

Quote:
I consider myself to be a rigid, orthodox Constitutionalist,
I myself am unorthodox

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…...to grant loans. It has been unchallenged…...
There have in fact been come recent challenges though somewhat weak. In the market collapse some 50 years ago however I lost some $20,000, a fortune at the time along with millions of others for a total of billions if not trillions of dollars of Americans’ savings. According to the bailout theory we should have been reimbursed by Big Government
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2012 10:29 am
@dalehileman,
There's no such thing as 'bailout theory.'

What more, you speak from a position of great ignorance. GM DID go through bankruptcy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization

You probably ought to look up basic facts about things before writing about them here on A2K. But I guess that you don't have time to do that, along with properly punctuating your sentences.

Cycloptichorn
dalehileman
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2012 10:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
You probably ought to look up basic facts about things before writing about them here on A2K.
You’re absolutely fight about that Cyclo. However I still maintain that Government shouldn’t reward quixotic business practices

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But I guess that you don't have time to do that, along with properly punctuating your sentences.
Yes I guess I’m really a bad person
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dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2012 12:52 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
they have tightened up their business, paid the loans back..
In Misfires on the campaign trail, AP,Victorville, Ca Daily Press: “THE FACTS:The General Motors and Chrysler aid has not been paid back in full, and is unlikely to be…"
0 Replies
 
 

 
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