11
   

Alternative schools?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 02:29 pm
@boomerang,
Both my grandparents (father's side) went to alternative schools:
• grandfather to a more "scientific", "open" grammar school (around 1900, he had had later some difficulties to get his "Abitur" [university entry diploma] recognized),
• grandmother to a Montessori grammar school (run be nuns, who even taught evolutionary biology) around 1910.

Those 'alternatives' are now 'regular' since decades. And 'prejudices' have changed and will change, too Wink
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 03:41 pm
@wayne,
Well, I put an apostrophe in, which doesn't denote possessive.

it's psychological parts

bad girl




On the topic, I'm still listening.

A boy who lived with our immediate neighbor, a hellion I've described before - that I probably didn't mention was charming when he wasn't blasting full volume electric guitar at 2 a.m. - went to a Phoenix school. Don't know if it did him any good. He eventually moved elsewhere. I can't look up what might have happened with him as I don't remember his last name.

But I can look up the Phoenix program.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 04:34 pm
@ossobuco,
Are you trying to confuse me Osso?
I was under the impression that it ( the scene ) possessed psychological parts, in which case I would have confidently used an apostrophe to denote the singular it's possession of those parts.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 04:57 pm
@wayne,
No, you're about the last person I'd try to confuse, appreciating your posts as I do (not to go all smarmy).

We have different takes on the use of the apostrophe.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 05:36 pm
@ossobuco,
LOL, I was trying to defend you from yourself, I must be really bored Smile
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 05:43 pm
@wayne,
I'm right on this, that I was wrong, you brat.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 05:59 pm
@ossobuco,
Idea hey I think Brats and Brussels sprouts sounds good for supper tonite.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 06:05 pm
@wayne,
Trying to picture that..

Sorry, Boom, we are paying attention, just treading water.
Engaged, you know, about prescriptivism and english - where is jtt when we need him?

Wayne, of course, is wrong.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 06:24 pm
@ossobuco,
It's a great combination, I like it any way, 2 flavors that go together.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 06:28 pm
@wayne,
You're in denial.
Me, I might learn to like brussels sprouts and brats.
You, on the other hand, need to research re the use of the apostrophe,
says grammar gremlin.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 06:32 pm
@ossobuco,
I'm often wrong. Not this time. Yah yah ya yah yah.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 06:41 pm
@boomerang,
I have no experience with alternative schools, but what's your objection
to charter schools, boomer?
Some of them are just great and very specialized. Have you looked into them
a bit more? There are also magnet schools that might be something for Mo.
(Magnet schools emphasize a special curriculum or educational structure, such as innovative courses and specialized training, with voluntary enrollment and open access beyond established attendance zones. Magnets offer supportive, personal environments while placing high expectations on student potential and progress.)
http://www.portlandconnected.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=983&MMN_position=1404:1387
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2011 08:54 am
@CalamityJane,
I think some charter schools are fine.

Finance is not my forte but if you follow the money on many charters there are significant problems. In fact, I've been following our current local charter scandal in which a school was given a half million dollars in grants -- public money -- and when opening day rolled around they hadn't bothered to buy desks or enroll students. All of the money just kind of disappeared. There is very little oversight.

Many charters are run by CMOs (charter management organizations) that are for profit companies operating on public funds. Big business is one of the major investors in charter schools and they get HUGE tax breaks for building and opening new schools:

Quote:
Wealthy investors and major banks have been making windfall profits by using a little-known federal tax break to finance new charter-school construction. The program, the New Markets Tax Credit, is so lucrative that a lender who uses it can almost double his money in seven years...

The credit can even be piggybacked on other tax breaks for historic preservation or job creation. By combining the various credits with the interest from the loan itself, a lender can almost double his investment over the seven-year period.

No wonder JPMorgan Chase announced this week it was creating a new $325 million pool to invest in charter schools and take advantage of the New Markets Tax Credit.


http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/09/12/reformmoney/index.html

All this while research is showing that charter schools actually preform worse then regular public schools. (http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf)

A lot of the charter school movement is simply a way to divert public funds into private hands. Whether they're working or not is beside the point.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2011 02:52 pm
@boomerang,
Interesting! I guess one does have to monitor what kind of charter/magnet
school has enough funds and good teachers to provide a good education.

Jane was in a German charter school in 6th grade that was started by German parents who also were professional teachers. They had a great immersion plan and a great curriculum too - only problem was for us, that the school was too far away and I got tired of fighting rush hour in addition to the distance.

I know that the Waldorf schools are expensive, but they would be just perfect for Mo. You really should check with social services to see if you are eligible for financial assistance to help pay for Mo's schooling.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2011 10:00 pm
@boomerang,
Hello again, boomerang.
And thank you for your warm welcome to this discussion . You are too kind.
I’m sorry it’s taken a bit longer to post here than I’d expected, but things rather got away from me yesterday.

I’m not sure, really, that the recollections of my involvement in the alternative school movement in the very late 1970s & the early 80s in Oz will have much relevance to your particular concerns with Mo’s future education alternatives (I confess I have only a hazy understanding of “charter schools”, etc), so this may just be a trip down memory lane for me and little more ...

The impetus for becoming involved in what was then called a “community school” was pretty much the result of my interest the alternative school movement in Oz at the time, which was particularly strong in Melbourne. Those were heady days, indeed!

Anyway, I became frustrated with the limitations (as I saw them) of mainstream schools & decided to explore further. Which lead me to the small (public, not private) community school & I stayed with for 6 years.

There were 10 teachers & 100 (senior high school age only) students. We didn’t have a “principal”, the idea was that all teachers shared all aspects of administration, so we took it in turns to act as school “coordinator”. (I always strenuously resisted the notion of having to take my turn, arguing that I’d make a lousy spokesperson for any organization, but philosophically that was not considered “correct”. Luckily, though, I never got to have to do it. Oh phew! Smile )

The students came from all walks of life, but initially, quite a high proportion of them came from “professional” families, who were looking for less restrictive or narrow education experiences for their kids. Some of their children simply did not “fit in” to mainstream schools, for a variety of reasons. These parents were very supportive of the philosophical goals of the school & many of them took part in the decision making process & volunteered their time to school activities.

The school was in the very heart of a busy thriving suburb, with easy access to trains & trams, library, town hall, shops, etc .... The idea was to get students out of classrooms, for much of their learning to occur out in the real world & for them to have a much bigger say in what they learned & how they learnt it. In other words, a curriculum which responded to their needs and interests, rather than one imposed from “above”. With provisions for compulsory “3 R” requirements, too, of course. Though not nearly as regimented as those of mainstream schools at the time.
So the mornings of school days were devote to “3R” activities & the afternoons were "elective” time. When students chose from the selection of activities offered (on a monthly basis).

(this looks like becoming an epic-sized post. Sorry.) ...

Another important part of the school’s philosophy was that all members be part of the decision-making process. Which, though a worthy goal, sometimes drove a few of us quite mad. There were endless meetings ... a staff meeting one night of every week, a meeting between staff & interested students every week after school, monthly community meeting which all members of the school community could participate in (compulsory for teachers, of course) ..... But, you definitely could not say that that every school member did not have the opportunity to have their say!
A number of students became particularly adept at arguing their cases, I can tell you! Wink

Oh & assessment! Very important.
The focus was on “process”. What each individual student had achieved in every unit of work they'd participated in.
Numerical assessment or competitive gradings?
Wash your mouth! Wink
At the end of each unit the teacher would write their assessment of the students achievements & the students was required to do the same. You know, this worked amazingly well.

I hope you get the picture.

So what do I think about all of that now, in the very sobering noughties?

Well first, it amazes me, comparing that experience with the extremely rigid & prescriptive education practices of today, that any government actually let us run schools like that! It looks almost like some golden, Camelot time, or something ....

Secondly, I doubt that the students who were educated in that school suffered as a result of it. I see references to them quite often ... everything from one who became an expert on baking & bread, others who have gone into more fields, and yet others who went on top become musicians, etc ...

What I’m trying to say, is though I fully appreciate that we are living in entirely different cultural , political & economic times now, compared to then, I sincerely believe that there is no good reason for for the education process to have become such a downright restrictive & mind-mumbing experience for so many students. Say nothing of their teachers!

I question why the curriculum has become quite so prescribed & narrow. Whose interests does this actually serve? In my opinion, certainly not quite a number of seriously disengaged students I’ve come across, who are bored rigid & can see no relevance what-so-ever to their studies , apart from “meeting the requirements” imposed on them.

I question why teachers cannot, apparently, be trusted to adapt the existing syllabus requirements to address the needs &the interests of the children in their classrooms. One size does not fit all. I see little virtue in the assessment methods which the education authorities have, in their wisdom imposed on schools. Treating the students as “clients” & requiring teaches to rate their achievements on a scale of 1 to 10.
What does that achieve exactly?

How exactly does this offer any encouragement or hope a student, who may well have made real progress in her/his studies, then to find, according to the “official” assessment of achievement, is “below the expected standard for his/her age”? Not meeting the requirements.

And how does such an assessment impact on the relationship between a struggling student & his/her teacher/s? The teacher might be (in all honestly) telling that student that they have made real progress in their studies. Something to be really proud of. Yet that very same teacher is required to then report that that student is not up to the prescribed “standard” for their age group. Would you blame such a student for becoming discouraged & not responding to their teacher’s encouragement in the future? They might well question their teacher’s integrity.
I feel sorry for both teachers & their students in such circumstances.

Finally, I really question what these rigid standardized prescriptions from education authorities have to do, exactly, with the process of education.
Education is meant to be an exciting, challenging, enjoyable experience, which at best, empowers young people to be independent, to think for themselves ... It seems to me that, all too often, schools are required to do just the opposite.

Rant over. Wink

Please don’t misunderstand. I am not suggesting that schools return the good ol days of the education revolution.
It’s more that the real, positive things we learnt from those original alternative education days appear to have been completely lost on the bean counters who control the education experience these days. And I am talking as much about what I see has happened in my own country as to what I read about in yours, boomerang.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 12:49 am
@msolga,
Erk
Just reread the above & see a few typos & bad edits.
Oh how I hate it when I do that! Wink
Too late to fix now.
Please excuse, anyone reading.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 01:00 am
@msolga,
... that have been just some alternatives ... Wink
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 01:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
... & very swiftly executed ones, Walter! Wink
(a bit slow off the mark today.)
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 07:14 am
@msolga,
Thank you msolga, that was very helpful. It sounds like it was a great experience for you and I think I've seen the long lasting effects it had on you when I read your education posts.

You gave me some great talking points should we get to the interview stage of applying. I hadn't given much thought to the administrative aspects of how the school might be run. This school seems to have a fairly large staff of administrators and support staff (including things like "academic success specialist" and "school success specialist") including a full time counselor.

Getting out of the classroom seems to be one of the things this school does well; they have a lot of "partnership programs" that are off site, many of them outdoors.

I really like that this school doesn't assign the kids to set grades, they move from group to group once they master a particular subject. I see poor Mo getting left behind on some topics because the rest of the class has to move on. He spends most of his time bewildered but he's learning to fake it -- and that worries me the most. I see him making that smart kids v. cool kids distinction and I know what a dangerous path that is to take.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 07:50 am
@boomerang,
My pleasure, boomerang.
(and please feel free to call me Olga. That feels a bit more like me. Smile )

Sorry that post was so long, but it could have been much, much longer! Trust me. Wink

Quote:
I really like that this school doesn't assign the kids to set grades, they move from group to group once they master a particular subject. I see poor Mo getting left behind on some topics because the rest of the class has to move on. He spends most of his time bewildered but he's learning to fake it -- and that worries me the most. I see him making that smart kids v. cool kids distinction and I know what a dangerous path that is to take.

This school does sound a promising alternative for Mo.
Working at his "own pace" is so much more positive & realistic than being expected to be at exactly the same point, at exactly the same time, as every single other student, in every single subject.

These days, as a casual supply teacher, I see this all the time. The whole class is required to turn to page 142 of their science book & all work on exactly the same tasks. When it is so clear, to an observer, that they are hardly all at the same point. Some are bored, because the work's way too easy, some struggle & need help & encouragement, because they're still a few stages back, while others are fine. And the ones which are "advanced" in that subject might well be struggling with the work in other subjects. You see that all the time, too.

When you go to the school for the interview, ask if you can walk around & check out the place as well. See how kids are interacting with other kids, check out how teachers and kids are talking to each other in schoolyard, take a look in the classrooms, how kids behave waiting for their food purchases at the cafeteria, etc ... there's a lot you can pick up about the atmosphere of a school simply by observing such things. What you will hear at the interview will be how the school presents (or markets) itself.
But you know all this already, anyway, I'm sure. Why am I telling you these things? Smile

Anyway, boomerang, good luck!






 

 
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