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is religion just a collection of man made dogma's that destroy the true meaning of of God?

 
 
BDV
 
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2011 05:57 pm
As per question, has religious dogma's destroyed the true meaning of religion which i would assume is to be a good person?
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Type: Question • Score: 1 • Views: 5,218 • Replies: 33
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Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2011 05:59 pm
Quote:
is religion just a collection of man made dogma's that destroy the true meaning of of God?


Yes.
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2011 06:04 pm
@Setanta,
that is probably the best one worded answer that i have ever seen in my life Smile
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2011 07:51 pm
@BDV,
What Setanta said!
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2011 07:56 pm
@BDV,
BDV wrote:

As per question, has religious dogma's destroyed the true meaning of religion which i would assume is to be a good person?

It certainly hasn't helped.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jun, 2011 09:17 pm
@BDV,
Why do you assume that the "true meaning" of religion is "to be a good person"?
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jun, 2011 08:35 am
@Lustig Andrei,
I suppose it depends what relgion you are talking about
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Jun, 2011 09:30 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Quote:
is religion just a collection of man made dogma's that destroy the true meaning of of God?


Yes.
A religion is a search for god; but a denomination, a dogma, a church, or a sytem of beliefs is what is done with God once one thinks they have found him/her/it... The contrary argument to this is that religion comes from religio, to tie back... It is ancient customs, beliefs, and practices that make religion, and these were shared with ones native group as morality always is... You cannot say religion destroys the meaning of God when God as an infinite has no fixed meaning as a sphere or a brick would certainly have...

You might say God is meaning without being as all moral forms are, but such infinite meanings are always subjective and open to dispute; so if you want to use religion as a source of wealth and power you must first establish a dogma and demand universal acceptance to end all disputes.... Dogmas are not about the destruction of meaning, but about the ending of dissension... Look at the history of Christianity in relation to the Roman Empire... First; they would not recognize Christianity because it was not ancient belief, and then, the authority of the church was put into relation to earthly authority, as the Emperor was seen to be, and this took different forms in the West than in the East... I am reading a good book on the subject right now...
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jun, 2011 06:59 pm
@Fido,
and the name of the book would be?
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 06:05 am
@BDV,
BDV wrote:

and the name of the book would be?
The Classical Heritage of the Middle Ages, By Taylor... Has a lot about the transition from Paganism to Christianity, as well as the rise of dogma... Another good book I have is called: After Life in Roman Paganism, by Cumont... I have also been reading about Erasmus, by Smith; and to give you an idea of the effects of people on dogma there is a short section to the Scotist, the followers of Duns Scotus, with Scotist being a name applied to all Irish missionaries and churchmen... In any event, these Scotists were responsible for the dogma of the Virgin Birth of Jesus being accepted as fact, and these nitpickers gained for their master the name: Dunce, universally accepted as meaning stupid...Eurasmus ridiculed one of their number, John Major, a Scotsman in this fashion: Good Heavans! What wagon Loads of trifling! What pages he fills with disputes whether there can be horsiness without a horse, and whether the sea was salt when God made it.... The Author says this was no exageration... Major seriously discussed whether God could become and ox or an ass, if he chose, and whether John the Baptist's head, being cut off, could be in more than one place at a time...

Since primitives had no such dogma they needed no superfluities of philosophy to justify them... Religion in the past had a purely utilitarian value which is not to say it was not used for all it was worth by the church fathers to milk humanity of its wealth and due...
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 04:53 pm
@Fido,
sounds like a good read, can't get it on digital download for my kindle, may have to buy a book when i'm back home next Sad
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jun, 2011 09:47 am
@BDV,
BDV wrote:

sounds like a good read, can't get it on digital download for my kindle, may have to buy a book when i'm back home next Sad
Good Luck... I only buy used books... Good scholarship, but you might need a Greek or Latin dictionary within reach... Seems like they expected readers to have that sort of knowledge in the past...
0 Replies
 
auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2011 08:14 am
Is religion just a collection of man made dogma's that destroy the true meaning of God ... The OP assumes the meaning of religion is to be a good person.

Couldn't religion be the path to God...to becoming a good person.
The bible seems to say there are more than dogmas to religion- there is the spirit. I think it talks about being led by the spirit.
There is the law, but there is also grace which Jesus gave to us by taking our sins to the cross to die with him there. The bible says that grace does not grant license to sin, yet without grace we are all doomed because no one can obey the law perfectly (execept Jesus). Rather than a law enforcer, grace allows God to love us even with our sins and likewise grace allows us to love others despite their faults.
The bible says God is love. If we are led by the spirit, which is God's spirit and the same spirit that was in Christ then we will follow God's commandment which is to love God and and to love our neighbors as ourselves ....and be a good person.
Christianity is more than dogma. When you accept Christ as your savior you have everlasting life in him. When God restores the world to its original perfection you will be there.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2011 08:28 am
@auroreII,
You are offering dogma in preference to fact... You might consider that Jesus was executed as a revolutionary, and he was attacking the formal relationship with God that clearly did not work for most of the Jews... What he was offering was a psychological and individual relationship with God, but what he tore down Paul soon built up, and when Luther tore down the form that Paul had built, the form he constructed was very like what Jesus had originally attacked which made of God and life a certain formality that once mastered delivered salvation, or the next best thing: Wealth... Luther hated the Jews only because they out Jewed him... They got there first with the most, and had a long history of philosophical support for their beliefs...
0 Replies
 
thomas-b
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 09:22 pm
@BDV,
I think dogma is something that exists within religion. Therefore, it is less than religion. By dogma, I assume we mean rules for which there are consequences for breaking them. Some religious groups strongly emphasize dogma and some do not.
But if you remove dogma from religion, there are still concepts about God, reality, souls, the value of life, and so on.
Many of the stories that depend on showing some enforcement of the rules would not make as much sense. But the stories about love, faith, giving, and so on....They would all still be upheld.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 04:42 am
@thomas-b,
I cannot at all agree with your definition of dogma. Dogma is the set of beliefs and principles, often in religion based on scripture, in which the believer is expected to believe and by which the believer is expected to act. I'd like to know what religious groups you allege do not emphasize dogma.

If you removed dogma from religion, your "concepts" would be empty and meaningless.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2011 01:55 pm
@thomas-b,
thomas-b wrote:

I think dogma is something that exists within religion. Therefore, it is less than religion. By dogma, I assume we mean rules for which there are consequences for breaking them. Some religious groups strongly emphasize dogma and some do not.
But if you remove dogma from religion, there are still concepts about God, reality, souls, the value of life, and so on.
Many of the stories that depend on showing some enforcement of the rules would not make as much sense. But the stories about love, faith, giving, and so on....They would all still be upheld.
Relgion is a form, and every form is a form of relationship... But; try to understand that there is a dynamic at work so that the more informal a relationship the more relationship there is to the form... Jesus; for example, was pushing a very informal relationship with God, one where God knew your mind and heart and you tried to act as humans should toward each other... Other people of his age and soon after counted on the form: You do this for God, and God does that for you... The Dogma is the formal part of the form, what must be publicly accepted to be a member of the church... And, it was often a matter of life or death in a physical sense as well as the spiritual sense...
0 Replies
 
thomas-b
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 11:07 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
I'd like to know what religious groups you allege do not emphasize dogma.

There are branches of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism....
My point was that religion is a set of beliefs but it is also the appreciation of things like love, religious experiences, the joy of looking at people in in a special way.
None of that is really about following rules. Sure, a very conservative belief system can claim the only way to feel those things is by following rules...but that really does not encompass all these religious concepts I am talking about.
Therefore, I conclude that dogma is not religion even though it is usually present within religion in some form.
So a religious group that emphasizes the gospel of love. Or the dharma of loving-kindness that says, "the rules are not the point. Follow the spirit of love," is fairly un-dogmatic. There are some very rare groups that are like this. Maybe more than people are aware of because many only look at the extremists in these kinds of dialog.
I fear you might be an example of that kind of thinking, asserting that religion is all dogma. That is an illogical extreme. But that is the form of all religious and political debates in America.
In your head you have come to a conclusion and expected everyone to agree with you. "Religion=dogma" is your formula but it is in error.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 01:01 pm
@thomas-b,
Quote:
My point was that religion is a set of beliefs but it is also the appreciation of things like love, religious experiences, the joy of looking at people in in a special way.


Religion is the means to obtain the appreciation of these concepts, not the concepts themselves.

Quote:
None of that is really about following rules. Sure, a very conservative belief system can claim the only way to feel those things is by following rules...but that really does not encompass all these religious concepts I am talking about.


These are properly termed Spiritual Concepts, they are not unique to religion.
Each religious sect, denomination, branch, uses a dogmatic system, approach to obtain a spiritual experience. These spiritual concepts, ideals are not unique to religion.
Calling things like love, forgiveness, joy, etc religious concepts is a lie.
These concepts exist entirely apart from religion.

At it's most basic level, a religious adherence to morning meditation, religion is a dogmatic approach to increased awareness of spiritual concepts.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 08:51 am
@wayne,
What you call concept are not concepts at all, religious or otherwise... Try to remember that religions get their power by taking over and improving upon the local Morality... It is like the burka or the veil... It is not common to Islam any more than the bunny for Easter or the Christmas tree is common for Christmas... We took up behaviors already present where Christianity conquered... No religion in expansion could deny the local practice and survive... The fact is that morality is common to all people, and all you have is variations on a theme... Dogma exists rather to defend the power position of a church to decide matters of eternal life or death and to judge the living... If you take Germany as an example; the church had influence long before it had authority, and it is authority that dogma defends... Why do the Catholics accept the Virgin Birth??? They have not always done so, and have only done so for about 5 hundred years... It does not matter.. What does matter is the ability of the church to be judge and authority over its own flock...
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