Should you have to take a drug test to get TANF?

@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Too bad you can lay off Meth for 3-4 days and pass tests like this, whereas marijuana stays in the system for a month or more. That's why tests like this catch primarily marijuana smokers, and are mostly useless at catching folks who do harder, more dangerous drugs.

You are wrong! There are very sophisticated drug testing devices out there
that can detect traces of substance abuse (also alcohol) for quite some time.

And how much do those cost? I doubt that those are the $50 piss drug tests that are being discussed here.

The idea that we are going to be doing hair follicle tests on everyone who needs food for their kids is, yeah. Ridiculous.

I think you mean well in this conversation and I understand your viewpoint. I just think that when people come begging for food isn't the appropriate time to crack down on them for drug use.

Cycloptichorn

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

You are wrong! There are very sophisticated drug testing devices out there
that can detect traces of substance abuse (also alcohol) for quite some time.

Yet, these tests are not cheap. They will not be provided to every office and if they WERE.... we are creating more of a drag on the system by demanding ta payers to fork out even more money to afford such advanced tests . These tests are given in HOPES of catching a few drug users? Really? So per person, per application, per family we have to spend MORE to test them just to SEE if they are doing drugs?

But isnt the end result of these tests supposed to be the LOWERING of costs on the public?
That doesnt add up.

A few drug users are not the drag on the system. Funding extensive, unnecessary tests with just a HOPE are examples of issues that are damaging the system..

( and no, I am not an advocate for drug users as I have said before. I just dont agree with laws that attempt to completely exclude drug users as if they are the sole reason for problems in the system.)

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

Quote:

It's safe to say though that drug users
neglect their children severely and damages resulting from neglect, malnourishment and other abuse is just as detrimental to a child as sexual
abuse.

Marijuana users are likely to be in the majority by far for positive testing results so would you care to give any links to studies that such users are more likely not to care for their children as well as the general population?

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@ehBeth,

And you know this because.....?
How do you know that social services won't intervene when parents test positive for drugs? How do you know what will happen once parents receive drug testing? You simply don't! You are just speculating as I do.

Thank you, my inability to grasp the situation made me at least adopt a child from the system.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

When I was still heavily involved with social services due to the adoption process, 80 % of kids in the system had drug abusing parents and related abuse thereof.

that may have been a percentage for YOUR office, but this is not a country wide statistic.

In one office, in this nation having an 80% rate ( which I kinda doubt was concrete 100% of the time. People/applicants come and go) makes no difference nation wide. This is a minute drop in a very very large bucket.

I have no doubt that in certain neighborhoods and certain areas there will be a high rate of users. To say otherwise would be idiotic. But again, this isnt nation wide.
So again, coming back to forking out more money in HOPES.... is kind of swimming up stream when the ultimate goal is to try to reduce the cost on tax payers over all.

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@shewolfnm,

In case you haven't read this: more states will follow the FL ruling.

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

In case you haven't read this: more states will follow the FL ruling.

Doubt it. It's quite likely unconstitutional, as it constitutes an illegal invasion of privacy - and one which will save no money and lead to no less drug use amongst poor parents whatsoever.

Cycloptichorn

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

The people who have developed the plan to test as part of the TANF app process are not interested in the children. They're interested in reducing TANF payments.

exactly.
In a nation that is bursting at the seams in prosperity... Literally.
I mean, this country has rules about how people need to care for their YARD and people consider this a normal natural monthly bill. Fuggin cutting GRASS fer christs sake... Yet, giving money to families who have to ask for the governments assistance is a nuisance ?

It would make more sense if these drug tests were in place to give help to people ON drugs. Or to help ensure , by assigning a person to sort of BE the grocery shopper or bill pay to make sure things are taken care of, then it would make sense. Doing something like THAT helps the kids and family members.
But just in order to only reduce the availability is just ridiculous. It only feeds peoples desire to judge and look down on others.

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@JPB,

YUP! There's a mean-spirited crusade coming from Rick Scott down here in Florida.

"The House Finance and Tax committee passed a bill Thursday afternoon that makes significant changes to Florida's unemployment compensation system and reduces initial benefits from 26 weeks to 20.

The bill also deny benefits for employee "misconduct," force workers to accept job offers that pay at least 80 percent of their previous wage, or to accept any offer that paid as much as their unemployment benefit, once they've been out of work for more than 12 weeks."

Funny. My brother is totally dependent on me to take care of him and yet he parrots Rush and the other conservatives who are trying to shut down social services for the handicapped.

He doesn't see the irony.

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@panzade,

Cut him off. If you like, I can produce an audio file for you of Rush and his ilk all telling him that he should be cut off, in their own words.

Cycloptichorn

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@CalamityJane,

Quote:

In case you haven't read this: more states will follow the FL ruling.

Lovely at the same time we are shutting down all kind of services for the poor and their families we are going to be pouring in 100s of millions into drugs testing firms nationwide.

In Florida they just ended a free state wide food program call farm share to the poor because the state stop funding them to the tune of 900,000 a years. Most of the food was donated so the state was getting a large bang for their dollars.

Guess it time to throw my morals over the wall and buy shares in drug testing firms as they seem to have far better lobbies then programs such as farm share.

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@panzade,

Which will effectively reduce the prevailing wage by 20%. One round of employee turnover and salaries will be 80% of what they used to be. Resulting, of course, in reduced revenues to the state because folks won't be able to support the economy - especially in a no state tax state like FL. Penny wise, pound foolish!

1 Reply

When Chrysler or GM, or the Wallstreet thieves come around looking for a bailout, do they test those jackasses for drug or alcohol abuse?

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@JPB,

I think some on this site are letting emotion over ride thier intelligence. Are some kids effected by family problems. Of course they are! Too solve this problem we can make every one have drug tests once a week, and test for alcohol, have neighbors turn any families who are fighting with one another into the state. Im sure this would make some on this site happy as hell. We turned the Soviet into a half assed democracy so why shouldent we become a country that completely controls its citizens? Hell, we might be able to quit having elections and just let the CEO's of the country just appoint the persident and congress. Just think of the money they would save in not having to give money to have the pols that they want elected. Cut out the middle man!!!

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

Thank you, my inability to grasp the situation made me at least adopt a child from the system.

Drug-testing for TANF was in play in California when you decided to adopt?

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

Yes, exactly, boomer is right! The process any adoptive parent has to go
through is at times humiliating, especially when they come to your house and look into just about every corner if it's child proof, and when it comes to
children, I fully cooperate and agree that their welfare and well being comes
first and the state should do everything in their power to protect children,
and if it means that TANF recipients have to undergo a drug test, so be it!

By the way, in addition to a drug test, I had an HIV test done as well.

In a world, or even, a country, where children die of sheer general abandonement, arent all those requeriments absurd? Its like letting a person die in a hospital because the only medic avaible to do the necessary procedure isnt very experienced and may screw up.

1 Reply

I'm not commenting on what the motivation behind this incentive is because I don't know anything about the governor of Florida and his business interests, etc. and though probably germane to this particular case, that's not what most interests me.

There is another way to look at this. A lot of drug users and people who are addicted do indeed view that addiction as a monkey on their back and would love nothing more than to have an incentive and help to quit.
If you've ever known someone who's addicted to drugs, you'd probably observe that their jobs, their children, everything in their life comes after their need to feed their addiction. They recognize this and most that I've talked to (at work) would do anything they could to quit.

In prison there are random MDT's - mandatory drug tests. A lot of the people I've talked to view these as a necessary and helpful deterrent in their fight against addiction.
Maybe if people understood that their money that was earmarked to clothe and feed their children would no longer be available if they used drugs, it'd act as a deterrent for them showing up having used drugs to collect their money.
Would this in any way be a bad thing? I don't think so.

I also don't think there's anything selfish or wrong about people not wanting their hard-earned taxes to go toward supporting someone's drug habit- whether that habit entail the ingestion or smoking of nicotine, alcohol, pot, pills, whatever. And I'm not even a republican.

I've seen too many poor kids living in squalor and suffering from chronic ear infections and colds, while their parents sit on the sofa with all the windows closed smoking so much that the ceilings and walls of the rooms have turned yellow.

So yeah - it may only be pot - but if you're smoking around a kid - it's no good for that kid- period.

And yadda, yadda, yadda, about rights and saving money and whatever - but if we don't start protecting the rights and health of these children - you just get ready for the society they're already inheriting.

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@manored,

One other comment we are not talking about someone seeking state approval to adopt a child from the state but families with as must rights to raised their own children as Bill Gates happen to have to raised his children.

The state have no reason to question parents right/fitness to raised their children for the sole reason that they are asking for the state aid or to assumed that such parents are drug users unless proven otherwise

Poor and in need of state aid does not equal likely drug users or at least no study that I am aware of support such a conclusion.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

also don't think there's anything selfish or wrong about people not wanting their hard-earned taxes to go toward supporting someone's drug habit- whether that habit entail the ingestion or smoking of nicotine, alcohol, pot, pills, whatever. And I'm not even a republican.

No they would prefer far more going to the well connected owners and shareholders of drug testing companies.

Quote:

A lot of the people I've talked to view these as a necessary and helpful deterrent in their fight against addiction.

Fine be even more helpful and force all parents to take drug tests as the poor should be entitle to the same respect as everyone else and they are not in prison and have no lost their civil rights.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Poor and in need of state aid does not equal likely drug users or at least no study that I am aware of support such a conclusion.

And I'm sure you won't find a study since nobody has ever required people asking for TANF to take a drug test.

2 Replies

Should you have to take a drug test to get TANF?

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