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LIBERATION?

 
 
Setanta
 
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2011 07:27 am
In addition to the turmoil of the middle east and North Africa, the Ivory Coast is at war with itself, and French "peace-keepers" are protecting the airport in Abidjan. With these situations, as well as very vocal dissatisfaction in the West over the situations in Burma and Tibet, to name but two, what do you think of the idea that the West is now entering a phase of history in which other nations will be liberated, if necessary by western military power? Do you think that this should happen? What do you think the results might be?

So that no one thinks i intend to ambush them, i think we are in a phase of social history when a lot of people in the West think these things are our business. I also think it is a really bad idea. For example, the protesters in Bahrain, many of them (and arguably most of them, with a very plausible argument) want a religiously conservative state which will effectively segregate women and make them not second class citizens, but no citizens at all, just the chattel of their husbands or fathers. Tibet, before the Chinese invasion, was a feudal country not unlike Europe in the 10th century, except that Europeans a thousand years ago probably lived much better than Tibetans did in the 1950s. The "government in exile" of Tibet is no democratic institution--it's members were all appointed by the Dalai Lama, and if they were to return and take over power again, the Tibetan people would proabably be once agains be hag-ridden by tens of thousands of useless mouths to feed in the monasteries. For whatever one may allege about the Chinese, they've brought to Tibet novelties like roads, hospitals and schools.

So, i think such an attitude is developing in the West, and i think it's a really, really bad idea, and comes of a shallow understanding of other nations, or no understanding at all.

Your thoughts?
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2011 07:36 am
China at this time reminds me somewhat of the expansion of the Roman empire.

resources are of course the key factor in determining where the west will assist.

0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2011 07:45 am
@Setanta,
it seems to me a bit like the bad neighbour down the road, the husband and wife are always fighting, the kids are in trouble in school and break into homes in the neighbourhood and shoplift from nearby stores, every once in awhile the old man goes to jail for beating the wife and things are calm, but he gets out and it starts again, same with the kids, maybe a stint in juvenile hall or care makes the neighbourhood peaceful but eventually they come home and the trouble starts again

you can't impose change, it has to be wanted and understood, let's face it the first world is only a few hundred years away from Kings and Queens holding absolute power, much of the rest of the world never left, even Russia and China just replaced one style of ultimate rule for another when they embraced communism
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  6  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2011 08:00 am
We are putting all our money and resources into the war machine, while allowing the home base to shrivel like a rotten apple. Even if we would be right to attempt this liberation, I don't think our nation(s) could hold together long enough to accomplish that much. Plus, Iraq and Afghanistan show that people do not generally wish to adopt our style of government and community, no matter how many weapons we fire.
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2011 11:29 am
@edgarblythe,
What we are seeing is the final gasps of colonialism.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2011 12:06 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I also think it is a really bad idea. For example, the protesters in Bahrain, many of them (and arguably most of them, with a very plausible argument) want a religiously conservative state which will effectively segregate women and make them not second class citizens, but no citizens at all, just the chattel of their husbands or fathers.


Very like something Dys posted yesterday. Too many people don't understand the culture and have no idea of why protesters are protesting and what would be accomplished if the current government were ousted.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Sun 3 Apr, 2011 03:19 pm
@Setanta,
I don't know that there is any reason to believe that we are witnessing the launch of or experiencing the initial stage of a new phase of history.

First of all, I think to consider it a new phase, we would have to believe that the West's interventions are for reasons that haven't been in play in the past.

I'm hard pressed to explain a "new" reason in terms that do not suggest a neo-con philosophy, and I just don't believe the West has gone neo-con.

Secondly, irrespective of motivation, the West is simply not in an economic position to finance such a new phase.

I'm not of the opinion that we are witnessing the inevitable decline of the West, or more specifically, America. I believe the US and the West in general will rebound, but it won't be within the next year or two, and without a thriving economic base, a policy of intervention cannot be funded...without ensuring decline and fall. Civilizations and nations have taken actions that have ensured their fall, but I just don't believe the current dynamics will allow that for the West or America.

Given the current state of the West's economy, it would be a bad idea to adopt a wide scale policy of intervention. Whether or not it's a bad idea, economics excluded, is subject to debate.

In any case, it's not happening.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 03:44 am
I'm not of the opinion that we are witnessing the inevitable decline of the West, either, which is why i didn't post anything so absurd.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 03:45 am
My thanks to everyone for their responses.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 03:21 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I'm not of the opinion that we are witnessing the inevitable decline of the West, either, which is why i didn't post anything so absurd.


Who claimed you did?
0 Replies
 
 

 
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