north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:03 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

It is deeper than that.


explain
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:06 pm
@talk72000,
Perhaps, but those two things effectively remove a person's oportunity to act unselfishly unless he has reserves to pay the cost for it.
Due to how money is created, there will always be more debt than money available to pay that debt, and since interest comes on top of all money upon creation, the money to pay the intrest doesn't exist. The only way you can make your payments is if someone else fails to make theirs. This is an undisputable fact of the capitalistic system we have in place.
And the inevitable result is that those who create the money ends up owning everything while everyone else is in their debt.
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:09 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Perhaps, but those two things effectively remove a person's oportunity to act unselfishly unless he has reserves to pay the cost for it.
Due to how money is created, there will always be more debt than money available to pay that debt, and since interest comes on top of all money upon creation, the money to pay the intrest doesn't exist. The only way you can make your payments is if someone else fails to make theirs. This is an undisputable fact of the capitalistic system we have in place.
And the inevitable result is that those who create the money ends up owning everything while everyone else is in their debt.


agreed

and hence the World financal problems
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:14 pm
@Cyracuz,
You had the same thing in the Soviet system. The Soviet system was a military inustrial complex. They created weapons and sold them internationally. With the collapse of the Soviet system those insiders, KGB members, all bought the state properties dirt cheap. Theyare the current Russian billionaires.

The problem is people dream up systems but do not spend time for areas opento abuse. The giving of shares to executives semed a good idea till executives cookedthe books to hype the prices of shares and sold them right away after quitting. Then there is the interlocking directorates where CEOs are board members of each other's companies.
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:18 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

You had the same thing in the Soviet system. The Soviet system was a military inustrial complex. They created weapons and sold them internationally. With the collapse of the Soviet system those insiders, KGB members, all bought the state properties dirt cheap. Theyare the current Russian billionaires.

The problem is people dream up systems but do not spend time for areas opento abuse. The giving of shares to executives semed a good idea till executives cookedthe books to hype the prices of shares and sold them right away after quitting. Then there is the interlocking directorates where CEOs are board members of each other's companies.


very good point
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:21 pm
@north,
Once some people realize a way to make easy money they keep it secret. Bankers found the leveraged loans as the way. The Communists found force was he way. Conrol of the government make weapons and sell them to other oppressed people.
Religions also found a way. Charity. Christians and Muslims used charity to pay their canon fodder. There is a lot of money in charity. The Soviets used orphanages to recruit their KGB members as are the Taliban.
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:29 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

Once some people realize a way to make easy money they keep it secret. Bankers found the leveraged loans as the way. The Communists found force was he way. Conrol of the government make weapons and sell them to other oppressed people.
Religions also found a way. Charity. Christians and Muslims used charity to pay their canon fodder. There is a lot of money in charity. The Soviets used orphanages to recruit their KGB members as are the Taliban.


interesting points !!
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:37 pm
@talk72000,
Yep, bad behaviour piled on despicable business practices all in the name of profit and validated by the economic system.
How backwards is it when someone can rob thousands for millions and come off looking like the saving hero?
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:45 pm
@Cyracuz,
In the democratic system it is difficult as parties get their cash from donors. That is one avenue of corruption. Then there are lobbyists who are probably former government employees or party members. If the government members are compromised there can be no reform.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:50 pm
@talk72000,
Well, the parties representing financial interests get more money to run campaigns than those who represent socialist intrests. Which kind of undermines the democratic bit of it, in my opinion...

Like the NY mayor he mentions in the video you posted, who spend 11 times more than his adversary on the campaign to get elected...
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 02:55 pm
@Cyracuz,
I think the problem with democracies is that the populace must be educated. Most don't understand economics or finance. People are getting advanced degrees without math and sciences. There are a lot of people with tunnel vision. This is the weakness of democracy. People can't figure out they are being stung.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 03:09 pm
@talk72000,
If politics requires special education to be understood, and this education isn't freely offered to anyone who is elligible to vote, it is not true democracy.

If democracy fails because people can't be asked to vote, it isn't really democracy. I think your video says it clearly.
Another film worth watching is Zeitgeist: Addendum.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 03:13 pm
@Cyracuz,
The ruling class wants it that way. The mantra that everyonegetsto vote is democracy regardless ifthey are hobbled by a lack of understanding.
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 03:15 pm

hopefully that as history goes on people will become more aware
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 03:20 pm
@north,
People have to make the effort to understand. That is why I post things and make it simple so it is easier to understand.
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 03:26 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

People have to make the effort to understand. That is why I post things and make it simple so it is easier to understand.


good

economics , capitalism should be in our education system from an early age
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 04:14 pm
@north,
north wrote:

talk72000 wrote:

People have to make the effort to understand. That is why I post things and make it simple so it is easier to understand.


good

economics , capitalism should be in our education system from an early age


and when we do perhaps it will bring a generation of capitalist that bring economics down to earth , you can only loan money based on the assets you have

and therefore just might see the potenial and be more enouraging towards space exploration
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 08:21 pm
@north,
It is nothing wrong with leveraged loans except that they pay the taxes on them. The country doesn't benefit as much from them when they (profits) are outsourced or hidden in other countries with different tax regimes.
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 08:41 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

It is nothing wrong with leveraged loans except that they pay the taxes on them. The country doesn't benefit as much from them when they (profits) are outsourced or hidden in other countries with different tax regimes.


interesting , so now just pay taxes on leveraged loans

so what you said before , is BS
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 08:50 pm
@north,
You don't understand. The loans are returned. The banks have extra $14,000 from $1,000 they had. They were allowed to lend $15,000. They have only $1,000 (cash) at hand. Are you that dense?
 

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