WHICH IS KINDER . . . ?

Forums: Mercy
Email this Topic • Print this Page

Plot from "House" TV show:
high school teacher is killed in automotive collision.

Dr. H wants n gets her heart for his patient.

Decedent 's widower, in a state of grief, laments having infected her
with VD, from a one night stand. He endures intense anguish,
in that the VD indirectly contributed to her death.

Unbeknownst to Hubby, thay have pictures, taken from her locked school desk
demonstrating that decedent was giving clandestine sexual education courses
to teenage boys, from whom she might have contracted the VD.

QUESTION:
Is it nicer to remain silent,
withholding information of her extracurricular affairs,
supporting his high esteem of his departed wife
and letting him blame himself (as he was doing)

or

to alert him to the newly discovered evidence of her unfaithful adventures ?

(Let 's assume that warning the boys to get tested is a separate issue.)

WHATAYATHINK ?

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,241 • Replies: 13

No top replies

Could it have been that he infected her with VD, which effected her brain, causing her to lose judgement and have the sex with the boys?

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

Could it have been that he infected her with VD,
which effected her brain, causing her to lose judgement
and have the sex with the boys?

Yeah; that musta been it !

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

hm
I'm just trying to know if this was the case, as it might help me make my decision.

I'm going back to bed, it's 4am

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Interesting question, David.

My initial reaction is to say that it is kinder not to disclose the information about his wife and the teenage boys because that would probably rock his perception of his wife, and his perception of his relationship with her, at a time when he is already anguished about her death. Why throw him into even more emotional turmoil?

Also, because he might be the one who did infect her with VD, there is no reason to get him off the hook in terms of his guilt about that. But the precipitating cause of his wife's death was the automobile accident, since, if she hadn't had the accident, the VD would not have killed her, and reminding him of that might help to assuage his guilt.

But, realistically, if his wife was involved with teenage boys, particularly if they were her students, this information is going to come out, and it really does have to be reported to authorities. If that would be the case, then the husband would have to be told about what his wife had been doing because he would find out about it eventually.

Do we know that the husband definitely has VD? Could it have been the wife who infected her husband with VD, rather than the other way around? Given that scenario, I would tell the husband about the photos, and about his wife's activities, because he should not be feeling guilty about having contributed to her death.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Interesting question, David.

Thank u.

firefly wrote:

My initial reaction is to say that it is kinder not to disclose the information about his wife and the teenage boys because that would probably rock his perception of his wife, and his perception of his relationship with her, at a time when he is already anguished about her death. Why throw him into even more emotional turmoil?

Also, because he might be the one who did infect her with VD, there is no reason to get him off the hook in terms of his guilt about that. But the precipitating cause of his wife's death was the automobile accident, since, if she hadn't had the accident, the VD would not have killed her, and reminding him of that might help to assuage his guilt.

The VD contributed to other factors causing a high fever, after which she lost control
of her car.

firefly wrote:

But, realistically, if his wife was involved with teenage boys,
particularly if they were her students, this information is going to
come out, and it really does have to be reported to authorities.
If that would be the case, then the husband would have to be
told about what his wife had been doing because he would find
out about it eventually.

No; being dead, she is immune from arrest n from criminal prosecution.

firefly wrote:

Do we know that the husband definitely has VD?

Yes.

firefly wrote:

Could it have been the wife who infected her husband with VD, rather than the other way around?

Theoretically, that is possible.

firefly wrote:

Given that scenario, I would tell the husband about the photos, and about his wife's activities,
because he should not be feeling guilty about having contributed to her death.

I agree. If he believes that she shoud be highly exalted in reverence,
then he' ll feel more of a burdensome sense of her loss and of his guilt in defiling her,
whereas if her memory is reduced in his mind, then he 'll feel less of a sense of loss
and less guilt, or no guilt, qua infecting her, which, indeed
might have come from one of the boys.

David

1 Reply

ok, I'm back.

I think what threw me about your question is that you use the word "kinder" in your thread title, and "nicer" in your text.

These are not the same thing, in my mind.

Anyway, I wouldn't particularly care about being nice, but I would want to be kind.

Is there any reason this man has to be told the truth immediately, when the grief is at it's height?

I think it would be kinder to wait a bit, when passions aren't so high.
The man is putting his wife on a pedestal right now. She's just died, and he feels he has to blame someone for it. Why not himself?

If I were a kind physician, I'd make an appointment for him to come see me in 3 weeks. I might even meet him somewhere outside of work.
Then, talk to him, bringing out that she was a human, and made mistakes too, and that she may have been responsible herself for getting VD.
I wouldn't just spill the whole sorid story immediately. First letting him come to grips that his wife had sex outside of wedlock also.

It might be he never asks for details, preferring to think she had a one night stand, the same way he did.
Then he could love her memory as being someone like him, imperfect.

If he did want more detail, it could be told a layer at a time, like an onion.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

No; being dead, she is immune from arrest n from criminal prosecution.

But, suppose she gave one of the teens VD, or caused emotional distress as a result of the sexual encounters, could her estate be sued in civil court for damages?

You're, the lawyer, I don't know these things.

And they would have to have the boys tested for VD, so the husband would find out that way.

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

ok, I'm back.

I hope that u slept well.
I too, have a lot of BIG cushions on my bed; good for support in watching TV.

chai2 wrote:

I think what threw me about your question is that you use
the word "kinder" in your thread title, and "nicer" in your text.

These are not the same thing, in my mind.

Anyway, I wouldn't particularly care about being nice,
but I would want to be kind.

I try for both.

chai2 wrote:

Is there any reason this man has to be told
the truth immediately, when the grief is at it's height?

Well, definitionally, grief is emotionally painful.
The idea is to rescue the poor fellow from unnecessary pain.

chai2 wrote:

I think it would be kinder to wait a bit, when passions aren't so high.
The man is putting his wife on a pedestal right now.
She's just died, and he feels he has to blame someone for it.
Why not himself?

If the misery and the guilt exceed some unknown degree of pain,
one of the possibilities is that he might get drunk n commit suicide.

chai2 wrote:

If I were a kind physician, I'd make an appointment for him to come see me in 3 weeks.
I might even meet him somewhere outside of work.
Then, talk to him, bringing out that she was a human, and made mistakes too,
and that she may have been responsible herself for getting VD.
I wouldn't just spill the whole sorid story immediately.
First letting him come to grips that his wife had sex outside of wedlock also.
It might be he never asks for details,
preferring to think she had a one night stand, the same way he did.
Then he could love her memory as being someone like him, imperfect.

Yes; I have some degree of indirect experience with this, in that many years ago,
I was out-of-my-mind in love with a girl named Joyce.
I was obsessed with her for a great length of time.
Accordingly, I read many books on this subject, one of whose
recommendations is that, in order to relieve the pain,
u remember and focus upon any flaws in the missing person,
so that u can appreciate it as less of a loss
(like: "well, at least I don 't have to put up with that cigarette smoke any more").

chai2 wrote:

If he did want more detail, it could be told a layer at a time, like an onion.

Yes; if he is patient, that is an option.

0 Replies

@firefly,

David wrote:

No; being dead, she is immune from arrest n from criminal prosecution.

firefly wrote:

But, suppose she gave one of the teens VD, or caused emotional distress
as a result of the sexual encounters, could her estate be sued in civil court for damages?

Emotional distress?

When I was a child, I thought it was emotionally very good (whatever the OPPOSITE of distress is)
accepting the overtures of older girls or of adult women.
I 'd have felt emotional distress, if thay changed their minds.

For what reason do u believe that thay 'd feel emotional distress?

firefly wrote:

You're, the lawyer, I don't know these things.

It depends on which jurisdiction; some states have "dead man 's statutes"
which prevent admission of such testimony. Without them, whenever someone dies,
any kids can allege abusive sexual contact suing in tort, for monetary
damages. In the absence of denial, no estate woud be safe.

firefly wrote:

And they would have to have the boys tested for VD,
so the husband would find out that way.

From the fact that he does not know of her educational fervor with those boys,
we know that he is not a source of information qua their identities.
Therefore, thay coud be warned of VD n tested, without his knowledge.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Suppose they did feel guilty or upset afterward, and felt she had pressured them into it because she was their teacher. And, if they had contracted VD from her, that could certainly cause emotional distress.

I agree that a teenage boy might be unlikely to feel distressed by an encounter with an older woman, and might see it as a gift. But, you never know.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Suppose they did feel guilty

Help me to understand your concept: when u say guilty,
what misconduct do u have in mind ?

Failures of chastity ?

firefly wrote:

or upset afterward, and felt she had pressured them into it because she was their teacher.

Do u mean that he feels that he shoud have refused because the teacher
was of unacceptable appearance, in an unreasonable degree ?

In my personal experience, none of the women nor older girls who made advances
to me, in my childhood, were teachers, but it woud not occur to me
to discriminate against my teacher, ex officio.
Does that make a difference ?
If so, what, or how ?

firefly wrote:

And, if they had contracted VD from her,
that could certainly cause emotional distress.

Yes, indeed.

firefly wrote:

I agree that a teenage boy might be unlikely to feel distressed
by an encounter with an older woman, and might see it as a gift. But, you never know.

Within the last 25 years, we 've read of a few instances thereof in the press.
I was chagrinned at the failures of loyalty of the boys as to the defendants.
I 'd have looked upon her as a friend in need, and protected her.
( I 'm not referring to VD here; that 's different. )

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Help me to understand your concept: when u say guilty,
what misconduct do u have in mind ?

Failures of chastity ?

They had gotten As they didn't deserve? Laughing

They might feel they gave her the VD which contributed to her death. And, if she hadn't initiated the encounters, they would never have occurred. That could be quite a distressing guilt trip for a young teen.

Maybe they really didn't find her appealing--too old, too unattractive--and would not have gotten involved except for the fact she was their teacher, (and the opportunity was too good to pass up). Perhaps their fundamentalist religious beliefs are making them feel what they did was wrong. She was married.

Basically, I agree with you. They probably would have regarded the encounter as a gift and would not feel guilty.

Quote:

In my personal experience, none of the women nor older girls who made advances
to me, in my childhood, were teachers

Did you have many women making advances to you when you were a child?

1 Reply

@firefly,

David wrote:

Help me to understand your concept: when u say guilty,
what misconduct do u have in mind ?

Failures of chastity ?

firefly wrote:

They had gotten As they didn't deserve?

They might feel they gave her the VD which contributed to her death.
And, if she hadn't initiated the encounters, they would never have occurred.
That could be quite a distressing guilt trip for a young teen.

Maybe it coud be possible.

firefly wrote:

Maybe they really didn't find her appealing--too old, too unattractive--and would not
have gotten involved except for the fact she was their teacher,
(and the opportunity was too good to pass up).

That 's one way to get good grades.

Anecdote (true story):
When I was 13, a lazy English teacher collected all the test papers
from our class, re-distributed them to other rows of seats
(so that no one woud have his own test paper) and told us how to grade the test.

I got the test paper of a girl with whom I was in love (unbeknownst to the teacher).
Her score was quite a bit higher than the numbers woud have indicated.

firefly wrote:

Perhaps their fundamentalist religious beliefs are making them feel what they did was wrong.
She was married.

Thay coud cause guilt problems.

firefly wrote:

Basically, I agree with you.
They probably would have regarded the encounter as a gift and would not feel guilty.

Yeah

David wrote:

In my personal experience, none of the women nor older girls who made advances
to me, in my childhood, were teachers

firefly wrote:

Did you have many women making advances to you when you were a child?

Well, some, but not many. I was not a good looking kid.
To my mind, that 's an odd thing:
I never liked my appearance, not then, and worse now,
but the ladies did not always agree with me about that,
judging from some of their invitations.

David

0 Replies

WHICH IS KINDER . . . ?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know