dadpad
 
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 05:35 pm
Religous FAIL:

CATHOLICS around the world were in shock yesterday after the Vatican linked the ordination of women with paedophile abuse by priests as both being ''grave crimes''

The ordination of women as Catholic priests is a "crime against the faith," the Vatican has said while it issued a raft of new disciplinary rules.

The Vatican made a number of changes to the way it deals with clergy sexual abusers that it said would promote rigour and transparency, but the same document of ''grave crimes'' now lists the attempted ordination of women in the same category as a matter for excommunication.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/womens-ordination-a-crime-20100716-10eb7.html


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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 1,343 • Replies: 30
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 05:41 pm
@dadpad,
This is so bizarre, I'm at a loss for words.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 05:45 pm
I was tempted to write something that would alienate every Catholic on the site. It took some self restraint.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 05:55 pm
@roger,
Me too. Maybe even ex catholics.. (of which you know I am one).

I saw this in the news earlier, and couldn't incentivize myself to post a thread on it, so thanks, dadpad.

That was my first lifetime use of the word incentivize, which I agree is a stupid word.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 06:24 pm
@dadpad,
It seems eminently sensible to me and it must be so because you don't see any priests that are women, do you? If God had wanted women to be priests, would there not be some?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 06:26 pm
@JTT,
Snort.

Well, slightly more seriously, I figured out years ago that many priests in at least my area were gay, but I've no idea of percentages. Within the church precepts, a way a man could be a bachelor and fit in the catholic community is to be a priest.. This was pre seventies that I'm talking about, but I suppose some of that still goes on.

I blame celibacy compounded by that any acted out sexuality when not married is a sin, much less to be acted out by priests; lots of consequent deprivation and at least in my acquaintance, lots of alcoholism, in part re a lonely life.
I'm not saying this makes any priest of any sexuality a pedophile, but it could contribute.

But, further, I think celibacy is not all the saintly thing it is cracked up to be; rather a fear of women and their complications. Or occasionally, an opportunity for hairshirt type of fervor (see many 'saints' of both sexes' activities).

And... moving along, that this is all resting on a debasing of women and a controlling of them (us).
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 06:50 pm
I'll add that I know some vocations were genuine, from the people I knew.

But I'll bring up that when I was in grammar school and high school, years pre vatican II, there was tremendous negativity to sexuality. One of my teachers, sophomore year religion class, insisted pleasure in marriage was a sin. My training manual on sex was the Liguorian magazine, all about mortal sin and how you could be in a car crash and die after "petting" - or that's how I remember it. Besides the rest of us, priests were affected by this stuff too. Ratzinger et al were from that era.

Well, my take is mostly about the US. I get it that things were a looser in some other areas of the world.

So, what is my point. Stop celibacy, it was an add on anyway.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 07:20 pm
I believe the church will self destruct without considerable reform. Of course I was wrong about something once before, a long time ago.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 07:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
I've been a bit out-front here. Oh, well.

The thing is, I did then know many good catholics. I still do (some of my best friends are, as the saying goes, but also true, and they are not hypocrites.)

I've also read a lot of history set in what is now Italy. This has not usually been edifying, while still educational - although I admit to liking one book about Lucrezia, probably long discounted.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 08:02 pm
@dadpad,
dadpad wrote:

Religous FAIL:

CATHOLICS around the world were in shock yesterday after the Vatican linked the ordination of women with paedophile abuse by priests as both being ''grave crimes''

The ordination of women as Catholic priests is a "crime against the faith," the Vatican has said while it issued a raft of new disciplinary rules.

The Vatican made a number of changes to the way it deals with clergy sexual abusers that it said would promote rigour and transparency, but the same document of ''grave crimes'' now lists the attempted ordination of women in the same category as a matter for excommunication.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/womens-ordination-a-crime-20100716-10eb7.html






Honestly, it's enough to make you want to get you some of that old-time religion and burn him and his gang as heretics.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 08:05 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I've been a bit out-front here. Oh, well.

The thing is, I did then know many good catholics. I still do (some of my best friends are, as the saying goes, but also true, and they are not hypocrites.)

I've also read a lot of history set in what is now Italy. This has not usually been edifying, while still educational - although I admit to liking one book about Lucrezia, probably long discounted.


I don't knock the Catholic members, just much of the organization.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:06 pm
Well, I guess that means that half the human race is evil. Where does that put the Blessed Virgin MAry?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:11 pm
@plainoldme,
Into myth?

I was raised on Lourdes and Fatima, especially Fatima, and will try not to mock, at the same time I take it as the boys in action again.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:12 pm
@plainoldme,
to whom do you direct your reply, Pom..
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:14 pm
I think this kind of thing is nothing new. What is new is how generations of women are changing, and I think that this kind of thing will widen the ever growing chasm between women and organized religion.

I think that this kind of thing will bear it's fruit in the next 20 years We will see more female religious leaders arise to center stage as well as many female atheist voices rise.

A
R
T
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:18 pm
@ossobuco,
To reply to myself, I never mentioned that if you had the fortune to have sons, (...), one would be aimed for the priesthood. This was true in many countries, and may be true now, for all I know.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:20 pm
@failures art,
The justaposition was particularly poor, from a pr point of view.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:23 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

The justaposition was particularly poor, from a pr point of view.

I'd go further. A comparison of a equal hiring status with the serial rape of children by the clergy is more than a poor PR mistake.

A
R
T
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:39 pm
@failures art,
I'm not disagreeing. Sometimes I speak dryly.

And past that, I'll venture that the vatican is all pr and real estate. Much as in time past.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:50 pm
@ossobuco,
First time I was in piazza san pietro, I cried. First of all, I had my period, and that was so bad I needed surgery when I got home, so I might have done that anyway. Next, I was angry, wild with x catholic church rage, and I'd been through that before, with some friends at Guadalupe. Next I was sentimental, the catholic church much of my life. Mixed with new stuff, as I was interested in piazzas and Bernini - but that wouldn't have been the immediate cause for my crying. Or maybe it was. Totally stunning place when near empty, and I was so glad to get there.

Whatever, I have a personal connection to that place.
 

 
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