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so Jesus is not God or son of God

 
 
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 12:43 pm
hey,

first i do not mean in this subject to make you(i mean the reader) get angry,but i want to say an idea.

Jesus eat,sleep,drink,......and many human action.

Allah God do not eat,drink or sleep.
because it is complete , perfect and do not need food or water.
but Jesus eat,sleep,drink,......and many human action.

this lead to say that Jesus is the messenger of Allah God,he is not
God or son of God.

second:
there are more shape -kinds-of The christianity's Holy book....at that time when Jesus in the earth the people how follow him have on kind of Holy book only.
but now in the vatican -for example-
there are more than 70 kind of the holy book......why???

and this lead to say the the human hands played in the christianity's Holy book.

third:
Adam also is created without father and mother,
and he is a prophet,
and Jesus do not have father,
so he is a prophet such as Adam.
so Jesus is not God or son of God.
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kynaston
 
  0  
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 09:10 am
@abd alrahem,
In the period we are talking about important Roman politicians like Augustus were elected gods by the Senate, and St Paul was a Roman citizen, so it wasn't a huge intellectual jump to decide that the much finer human being Jesus could be 'Son of God'. For my money he was just picking up a phrase: decent people are all 'sons of God'.

Islam goes to the transcendent extreme in its notion of divinity, as far as I understand it: in other words 'God' is wholly other. In the long run it will doubtless hit the same problem as Christianity: in the past everyone explained things in terms of 'gods' or 'God', but, as far as most of us can see, once we are free of our upbringing, 'we have no need of that hypothesis' nowadays. For many of us that is a pity: we live in a cruder and much uglier world. On the other hand, if there were a 'God', would He want us to tell lies? I think not.

Jesus is not the Son of God because, as far as we know, no such being exists.
abd alrahem
 
  2  
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 09:26 am
@kynaston,
kynaston;70818 wrote:
In the period we are talking about important Roman politicians like Augustus were elected gods by the Senate, and St Paul was a Roman citizen, so it wasn't a huge intellectual jump to decide that the much finer human being Jesus could be 'Son of God'. For my money he was just picking up a phrase: decent people are all 'sons of God'.

Islam goes to the transcendent extreme in its notion of divinity, as far as I understand it: in other words 'God' is wholly other. In the long run it will doubtless hit the same problem as Christianity: in the past everyone explained things in terms of 'gods' or 'God', but, as far as most of us can see, once we are free of our upbringing, 'we have no need of that hypothesis' nowadays. For many of us that is a pity: we live in a cruder and much uglier world. On the other hand, if there were a 'God', would He want us to tell lies? I think not.

Jesus is not the Son of God because, as far as we know, no such being exists.



when you believe that the clock ,car and computer -for example-need the maker ,you will believe that rocks, snow, hydrogen atoms are made by Allah/God,and there is another question....Can you made a hydrogen atoms???
if you can not made an atom....the chancing????no ....what about the world??
hydrogen atoms is also complex .....very complex
look for example: all scientists can not make a live cell...do you know that ....how this cell , atom or any thing in the world make them selves????
it is impossible!!!!

your speech is impossible!!

look again...
the human body is made up of for substances:hydrogen,oxygen,carbon and nitrogen ...if you mix this substances with each other and stay wait ...is it possible this substances make the human body by chancing ???
the answer no but ,yes with maker ,this maker is Allah/God.

think!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allah/God made you in your mother's uterus ,when you see the light ...Allah make a lode in your mother's breast ...this lode give you a cold milk in summer and a warm milk in winter ..Are all these things is by chancing ????....No and thousand(No)

go and create a life insect to me.
you are helpless to create and your chancing.

this guide to believe that Allah God is exist.
kynaston
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 10:00 am
@abd alrahem,
Abd Alrahem - You postulate a clockmaker because you were brought up in a religion. Many people were. I can't make a decent pudding, but that doesn't mean a God makes them: my wife does it, under purely natural conditions. There are perfectly good scientific explanations of how things came about - under different conditions from those now current - and there are better reasons to believe them than the revelations of the various prophets, messiahs and so on - unless we want to cling to what we were told when young. Very good people perceived how the world could be better, and in those days it was natural for them to hear or see projected supernatural beings who backed those perceptions: they weren't lying - it was the way their heads worked. What is more, the world was the better for their preaching. It is very warm and pleasant to keep believing what we believed when we were six, but simply asserting it is still true doesn't make it so: the world has moved on. Believe it while you can, however, if that suits you better: many can make it last a lifetime!
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:07 am
@abd alrahem,
abd alrahem;70733 wrote:
hey,

first i do not mean in this subject to make you(i mean the reader) get angry,but i want to say an idea.

Jesus eat,sleep,drink,......and many human action.

Allah God do not eat,drink or sleep.
because it is complete , perfect and do not need food or water.
but Jesus eat,sleep,drink,......and many human action.

this lead to say that Jesus is the messenger of Allah God,he is not
God or son of God.

second:
there are more shape -kinds-of The christianity's Holy book....at that time when Jesus in the earth the people how follow him have on kind of Holy book only.
but now in the vatican -for example-
there are more than 70 kind of the holy book......why???

and this lead to say the the human hands played in the christianity's Holy book.

third:
Adam also is created without father and mother,
and he is a prophet,
and Jesus do not have father,
so he is a prophet such as Adam.
so Jesus is not God or son of God.


Jesus never once refers to himself as god in the bible, this is the doctrine created at the council of nicaea and other successive meetings by religious leaders.


I do not think jesus was anything more than just a man. But I am not a christian, so my views do not reflect their views.
Rehmat
 
  0  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 05:44 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
There is nothing wrong in Christians believing that Jesus was a part of 'God' - while many Christian historian believe tha Jesus never existed.

Church is known to prove Jesus existence as a holiman by quoting Holy Qur'an to shut-up rabbis who call Jesus an illegitimate child of a Roman soldier (Talmud) - while creating their own new religion "holocaust" to replace the 'Moses Law'.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:11 pm
@Rehmat,
Rehmat;70853 wrote:
There is nothing wrong in Christians believing that Jesus was a part of 'God' - while many Christian historian believe tha Jesus never existed.

Church is known to prove Jesus existence as a holiman by quoting Holy Qur'an to shut-up rabbis who call Jesus an illegitimate child of a Roman soldier (Talmud) - while creating their own new religion "holocaust" to replace the 'Moses Law'.


Quoting the Koran (Qur'an) doesn't prove anything. It is a faith book and it's contents must be accepted on faith, not proofs or evidence.
abd alrahem
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 02:12 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;70870 wrote:
Quoting the Koran (Qur'an) doesn't prove anything. It is a faith book and it's contents must be accepted on faith, not proofs or evidence.


Quran is full of miracles that are guide that Islam and Allah quran and the prophet muhammad peace be upon him are honest.

you must read this example exactly:
first example:
Scientific Miracles in the Prophetic Teachings for a Cure of Anger



Here are some medical recommendations, published in one of the most important medical websites, to cure or avoid anger.

Psychology Help Center
second example:

The Miraculous Saying of Allah's Messenger (mouhammad)(PBUH): The drop of semen after forty two nights

and the photos in:


Muhammed The Prophet of Islam_The Miraculous Saying of Allah&#39s Messenger (PBUH): The drop of semen after forty two nights


In what follows we shall review in pictures the development that the embryo undergoes when it passes 42 days in the womb and how the noble Hadith conforms to the scientific facts.

The sceptics had objected time and time again to the hadith of Allah's Messenger (PBUH) saying: "If a drop of semen spent in the womb forty two nights, Allah (the Almighty) sends an angel to it who depicts it and creates its ears, eyes, skin, flesh and bones." (Narrated by Muslim). They said that this hadith does not conform to modern science nor to the phases of the fetus development.

Science is really developing and revealing new facts and if we examine the recent researches in embryology and study the phase that Allah's Messenger (PBUH) had mentioned, when the embryo is 42 days old, what do we find? Why did the Messenger specify such age, 42 days, and what does it mean as regards the development of the fetus in his mother's womb? In what follows we exhibit a number of photos along with their explanation to show you how the embryo develops especially during the fifth, sixth and seventh week. Later we will get back to discover the perfect matching between the Prophet's hadith and the sayings of the contemporary scientists.





Photo 1



These are the stages by which the embryo passes starting by being a drop of semen all the way up until the end of the sixth week (42 days). We notice that the fetus does not take its human form except when it has completed 42 nights in the womb, such fact was confirmed by Allah's Messenger (PBUH) in the noble hadith. Take a note here of the shape of the drop of semen which does not resemble man, then it changes to a clot of blood which does not inspire any human shape, then it changes to a lump of flesh which again does not resemble man and when it is 42 days old the human shape appears clearly and it goes on until the end of pregnancy. Subhan Allah (glorified be Allah).





Photo 2




A real photo of a fetus five weeks old, in which we find no features of a human being. Scientists say that most of the animals take this form at such age, thus the embryo did not yet take its human form and we can see no ears, eyes, skin or bones.





Photo 3




A real photo for a 47 days old embryo, we notice that it has taken the human form and it is obvious that the ears, eyes and skin were being formed. All such features started to form by the end of the sixth week and they became obvious completely by the seventh week. The heart of the embryo starts beating clearly the sixth week.

To listen to the embryo's heart beat, click here



Photo 4






A photo comparing between a 5 week old embryo and another which is 8 weeks. Notice how the features, volume and shape have changed and how the humane form of the fetus became clear. Scientists say that as of the end of the sixth week, which is when the embryo is 42 days old; it starts to differentiate between the different voices and reacts to them. Scientists confirm that the age 42 days and what follows is a definitive border between the stage where the fetus is un-characteristic and that stage where that fetus takes its human form. That's why we find it mentioned on one of the sites that takes interest in the development of the fetus saying: - quoted word for word-

" During the sixth week after fertilization the unborn child can respond to local tactile stimulation by reflex movements. At the end of the sixth week, the unborn child is clearly recognizable as a human being by gross morphological observation. "

During the sixth week after fertilization the embryo starts responding to the outer effects by means of the reflexive movements. By the end of the sixth week we can easily, through observation, mark the embryo in the form of a human being. On another website we read their statement:

"The brainwaves have been noted at 43 days. Dr. Stiff has noted that electroencephalographic waves have been obtained in forty-three to forty-five day old fetuses, and so conscious experience is possible after this date".

Meaning, that the encephalic waves start when the fetus is 43 days old. Dr. Stiff noticed that the waves emitted from the brain can be measured at the age from 43-45 days, and in the same way the voluntary expressions can be observed after that age.





Photo 5





A photo of a six weeks old embryo, such age at which the fetus takes its human form and its brain starts emitting waves that can be measured by means of special apparatus. This is an indication that the brain cells had started their activity and this might also mean that his spirit had entered the body, Allah (the Almighty) knows best. Observe how the eyes are beginning to formulate. Scientists assure that the eyes opening starts to formulate at the age of six weeks and this goes in perfect harmony with Allah's Messenger (PBUH) saying "he gives it its shape and creates its hearing and seeing."

The eyes appear clearly at the 42nd day according to Keith Moore, the famous embryologist, who says: "the eye is obvious, about day 42 after fertilization "(Moore, p99).

After that 42 days have been fully completed the eyes and ears start developing rapidly:

" The eyes are developing rapidly, the ears are developing rapidly, 7th week after conception (Rugh, p 52). Science for Unborn Human Life | Appendix 1 | 6th Week.

The ears and eyes develop rapidly during the seventh week (after the drop of semen had passed 42 days in the womb). This means that the fetus takes its human form by the end of the sixth week, such fact is stated accurately & clearly in the Prophetic hadith:" If a drop of semen remained in the womb for forty two nights Allah (the Almighty) sends an angel to it who depicts it and creates its ears, eyes, skin, flesh and bones."





Photo 6




Let us study these two photos: one of them is when the fetus is 41 days old and until this moment we can't distinguish its human form but after the 42nd day, which is the second photo, his human form is seen clearly. That's why in the left photo we observe the features of a human embryo with apparent ears and eyes and also the feet, hands and fingers, glorified be Allah (the Almighty). After witnessing a horrific number of abortions in the non Islamic countries, there are many campaigns against such abortions today. Scientists and researchers are embarking on a study to designate the age after which abortion is to be prohibited. They found out that the brain of fetus at the end of sixth and the beginning of the seventh week (meaning when the fetus is 42 days old), starts emitting waves which proves the start of life, so they suggest that the embryo cannot be killed after that age.

Here I recollect with you the instance in which some of our legists had made use of such hadith of our greatest Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and deduced that it is impermissible to abort a child who is 42 nights old, Even though an abortion can be performed before this age if there was a medical necessity that calls for that.

This is such a wonderful prophetic hint that the spirit is instilled in the embryo at this specific age. At such age (42 days) waves released from the brain were measured and also heart beats were recorded, all of this suggests that there is a relation between the spirit and the operation of the brain and heart. Allah (the Almighty) knows best.





Photo 7





A fetus in real size of 42 days old of age which has started to take its human form, observe here how small it is, even though he is considered a fully developed human being as far as the shape is concerned. Thus some scientists say that abortion is impermissible of that fetus because it is considered a full human being.







Photo 8




A fetus training itself to suck its finger for the preparation of getting out to the world and starting to suck its mother's breast, so all praise is due to Allah who had taught this child that which it does not know, who said: " And Allah brought you out of your mothers' bellies not knowing anything, and He has made for you hearing and be holdings (i.e. eyesight) and heart-sights, (i.e., perception "s") that possibly you would thank (Him)."

The question is what does all that mean?

It means that there are radical changes that occur immediately after the fetus is 42 days old. On the 43rd day the brain starts emitting waves and the embryo begins reacting with its surrounding environment and starts feeling. It means that the spirit had started its activity in the body of the embryo. It also means that the greatest Prophet (PBUH) had preceded the western scientists in telling us about such a specific issue which no man could have ever predicted fourteen centuries ago. This means that no one can provide such data about this stage unless he is a specialized doctor who had all the necessary equipment. Was Allah's Messenger (PBUH) a doctor who had such devices? Here we have to stop again and ask those sceptics: how did the greatest Prophet (PBUH) know that exactly after 42 days the drop of semen will turn into a human being who has ears, eyes, skin and bones??!

third example:
The Prohibition of Carrion, Blood, the Flesh of Swine, and that which has been Acclaimed to Other than Allah:

forth example:
The Prophet would never Deceive himself!?



We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)... 1 (Quran, 23:12-14)

Literally, the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot.

In comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two2 as we can see in figure 1. Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech, which feeds on the blood of others.3

Figure1 in this link:
A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the QuranA Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the Quran
Figure 2: We can see in this diagram the suspension of an embryo during the alaqah stage in the womb (uterus) of the mother. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 66.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

Figure3 in this link:
A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the QuranA Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the QuranA Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the Quran

Figure 5: Photograph of an embryo at the mudghah stage (28 days old). The embryo at this stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance, because the somites at the back of the embryo somewhat resemble teeth marks in a chewed substance. The actual size of the embryo is 4 mm. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 82, from Professor Hideo Nishimura, Kyoto University, Kyoto, Japan.)


Figure 6 in this link:
A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the Quransixth example:


the seven Earths
and there are a lot of miracles in Quran and the prophet's saying,
the bases of Islam is very strong and thank Allah God for that,
but,
where is your guides?where?
muslims is interesting in comfortable self and thank Allah God for that.

on the other hand:
In ISLAM bases:
ALLAH God is the only god and deity.
Jesus and mouhamad peace be upon them are prophets of Allah God.
0 Replies
 
Rehmat
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 02:24 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;70870 wrote:
Quoting the Koran (Qur'an) doesn't prove anything. It is a faith book and it's contents must be accepted on faith, not proofs or evidence.

Who cares what a Israeli Hasbara filth like you think. There are more than 1.7 billion Muslims and several thousands of non-Muslims who believe in the truth of Holy Qur'an expecially in the scientific field.

Next Hasbara idio, please!
Fatal Freedoms
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 02:45 pm
@Rehmat,
Rehmat;70975 wrote:
Who cares what a Israeli Hasbara filth like you think. There are more than 1.7 billion Muslims and several thousands of non-Muslims who believe in the truth of Holy Qur'an expecially in the scientific field.

Next Hasbara idio, please!


Since when do we measure validity based on how many people believe something? :confused:

We have examples of where the majority is wrong. But Islam isn't even the majority, Christians far outnumber Muslims, so then shouldn't you convert to Christianity then?
Rehmat
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 05:02 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;70977 wrote:
Since when do we measure validity based on how many people believe something? :confused:
Ask your Jewish boss dog, Abe Foxman

Quote:
We have examples of where the majority is wrong. But Islam isn't even the majority, Christians far outnumber Muslims, so then shouldn't you convert to Christianity then?

Nyeth Hasbara fool. Check CIA Fact Book - Muslims have out-numbered Christian by 0.3 billion - and you Jews at the bottom of the heap - only 12.7 million.

Next Hasbara idiot, please!
Fatal Freedoms
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 07:42 pm
@Rehmat,
Rehmat;70982 wrote:
Ask your Jewish boss dog, Abe Foxman


I'm asking you. I don't even know who abe foxman is, nor do I care.


Quote:
Nyeth Hasbara fool. Check CIA Fact Book - Muslims have out-numbered Christian by 0.3 billion - and you Jews at the bottom of the heap - only 12.7 million.

Next Hasbara idiot, please!


http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/MichaelPatton/Denom-Religions/WorldReligionNumberslg.gif


Major Religions Ranked by Size



There are about 1.6 billion muslims

Muslim Population Worldwide Authentic(true) Information with Reference




There are roughly 2.1 billion christians

Religions of the world: numbers of adherents; growth rates




You need to check your facts again. :thumbup:
Rehmat
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 08:44 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Is your spam chart is from CIA Fact Book?

Here is a spit on your Jewish face by a Jewish source regarding world's Jewish population.

Jewish Congress Says World Jewish Population Shrinking

Next Hasbrar idiot, please!
Fatal Freedoms
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 02:27 pm
@Rehmat,
Rehmat;70992 wrote:
Is your spam chart is from CIA Fact Book?

Here is a spit on your Jewish face by a Jewish source regarding world's Jewish population.

Jewish Congress Says World Jewish Population Shrinking

Next Hasbrar idiot, please!


I didn't say anything about judaism, I said


CHRISTIANS OUTNUMBER MUSLIMS....this is a fact.



Agnostics such as myself are just behind Muslims and Hindus in numbers.
Rehmat
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 06:42 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Why Moshe - are you afraiad of the "dogs' population" being shrinking :confused:
0 Replies
 
abd alrahem
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 06:05 am
@Rehmat,
Rehmat;70975 wrote:
Who cares what a Israeli Hasbara filth like you think. There are more than 1.7 billion Muslims and several thousands of non-Muslims who believe in the truth of Holy Qur'an expecially in the scientific field.

Next Hasbara idio, please!


thank for your fair-minded ,Rehmat,thanks.
pastorpatricia
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 02:58 pm
@abd alrahem,
Christianity beleives that Jesus is God incarnant, fully God and fully man. He is a part of the triune God.
0 Replies
 
ibfij
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2010 04:45 am
@abd alrahem,
@ Rehmat & Fatal Freedom, both:

both of you have got fair grip and clarity of what you believe but Rehmat, can we just for once decide not to fight and hate christianity and jews. What do we really know about them to outcast them?

And Fatal Freedom, I respect whatever you said. Fake chart or hardcore numbers, the truth is that Christianity is the religion of living majority. But, religion in papers is different from religion in practice so Christianity might not be on top for laters.

The only point I preach (if you wanna name it) is that Jews, Christians and Muslims have got much more things in common (Monotheists) than any other religion and we are the ones despising each other the most.

Talking about similarity, Jews and Muslims have more things in common (when it comes to faith) but we (Muslims) feel like killing any Jew we might ever come across.

Religion and the discrepencies are a way to remember and speculate His work and that's it.
0 Replies
 
786
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:42 am
@abd alrahem,
Mohamed, messenger of Allah; is illegal race brother of Jesus.
Conflict between Christian and Muslim - Legal & Illegal rights.





0 Replies
 
Philis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2012 12:54 am
@abd alrahem,
Jesus came in the flesh, You and I have experienced what Jesus has experienced. That makes him capable of knowing our soul.
0 Replies
 
 

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