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Total Freedom

 
 
Carico
 
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 12:27 am
From the posts here, it appears that most atheists have a fallacious understanding of Christianity. They think that we Christians either think we're better than non-Christians or that we are better than they are. Both are wrong.

As Jesus said, "Only the truth will set you free." He also said; "He who humbles himself will be exalted and he who exalts himself will be humbled."

Once we admit the worst about ourselves, there is nothing more to fear...nothing.Smile We no longer have to lie or boast about ourselves, or pretend we're better than we are, we no longer have to run from the consequences of our behavior, we no longer have to run, period.

So since we have all: lied to ourselves and others, cursed God and our neighbors, lusted after whatever has aroused us, kept money that could be given to the poor, eaten food that could have been given to the hungry, envied out neighbors possessions, cars, houses, looks, intelligence, success, etc. been slothful about helping people, and worst of all, claimed we're good people for doing the above thousands of time in our life time, then we're all guilty of sin whether we want to be or not.

There are thus only 3 ways to deal with the above; 1) deny that we do them, (which is lying) 2) admit that we do them and justify them so we can continue them 3) accept Christ's atonement on the cross for all of them.

Only the last one represents complete and total freedom because it eliminates them by giving us less and less of a reason to commit them. Knowing that Jesus took away our sins by paying for them by his death on the cross, means they are wiped off the record and we have a clean slate. We then can stop;

1) lying about the fact that we sin
2) stop envying outside things that don't make us free
3) Stop lusting after anything that arouses us because it doesn't satisfy the way inner freedom and Christ's love does
4) Stop cursing God and our neighbors because God redeemed us from sin and misery and our neighbors are in the same boat we are so there's nor reason to hate or judge them.
5) Stop thinking that money can buy happiness
6) Stop boasting about our goodness because we know we aren't good
7) And thus spend our lives thanking God for what he did for us and helping our neighbors to have His love as well.

So Christianity takes about as much effort as thanking someone for rescuing us from a burning fire. But those who don't want to see their own sins will hate us as Jesus says they will. But I remember how I didn't want to see my sins at one time either so I can understand them and still love them even though they don't love me.

So Christianity represents total and complete freedom and the best part of all is, it can never go away throughout all of eternity because no one can ever take God's love out of our hearts. And that's heaven. Smile
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Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 02:50 am
@Carico,
I know some Christians who are the kindest most generous people you will ever meet and yet I know other Christians who have a presumed superiority and look down on all those who don't go to church or share their views. I know even other Christians who are just average run-of-the-mill folks.

I know some atheists that are angry and unhappy and I know other atheists that are the incredibly kind and intelligent.

What's my point?



People are people and it doesn't matter what religion if any they have. So you can't make sweeping generalizations.
Carico
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 06:15 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;66764 wrote:
I know some Christians who are the kindest most generous people you will ever meet and yet I know other Christians who have a presumed superiority and look down on all those who don't go to church or share their views. I know even other Christians who are just average run-of-the-mill folks.

I know some atheists that are angry and unhappy and I know other atheists that are the incredibly kind and intelligent.

What's my point?



People are people and it doesn't matter what religion if any they have. So you can't make sweeping generalizations.


Again, you have to discern the wolves in sheep's clothing from the true sheep. Smile

Some atheists are happy because they enjoy sin. It's those who are unhappy that have the potential for redemption. Ecclesiastes 7:4, "The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure." Wink
Ares cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 06:55 am
@Carico,
Carico;66778 wrote:
Again, you have to discern the wolves in sheep's clothing from the true sheep. Smile

Some atheists are happy because they enjoy sin. It's those who are unhappy that have the potential for redemption. Ecclesiastes 7:4, "The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure." Wink


Alright! I've been trying not to but I'm using the Great Monk scenario. Alright, so there is a Buddhist monk, he is loyal to the monastery, completely abides by the strict moral code, and never falters. Now there is a Christian monk, he is loyal to the monastery, completely abides by the strict moral code, and never falters... According to YOU the Buddhist Monk will go to hell and the Christian monk to heaven, to me it seems like a crock of ****.
Carico
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 06:58 am
@Ares cv,
Ares;66788 wrote:
Alright! I've been trying not to but I'm using the Great Monk scenario. Alright, so there is a Buddhist monk, he is loyal to the monastery, completely abides by the strict moral code, and never falters. Now there is a Christian monk, he is loyal to the monastery, completely abides by the strict moral code, and never falters... According to YOU the Buddhist Monk will go to hell and the Christian monk to heaven, to me it seems like a crock of ****.


Sorry, but it's not according to me, it's according to the God. Wink

So you first have to know who God is before you know where to find His word. Buddha never claimed to be God or know God. Buddhism is a "self-help" ministry that relies on the mind of man to fix the mind of man. That's the blind leading the blind since a fallible mind cannot fix a fallible mind. So unfortunately, Buddha is in hell right now (where all mortal men go who cannot save themselves) since he exalted himself, rather than humbled himself before God. And that's why his followers worship statues made by the hands of men that cannot speak.
Ares cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 07:02 am
@Carico,
Carico;66791 wrote:
Sorry, but it's not according to me, it's according to the God. Wink

So you first have to know who God is before you know where to find His word. Buddha never claimed to be God or know God. Buddhism is a "self-help" ministry that relies on the mind of man to fix the mind of man. That's the blind leading the blind since a fallible mind cannot fix a fallible mind. So unfortunately, Buddha is in hell right now since he exalted himself, rather than humbled himself before God. And that's why his followers worship statues made by the hands of men that cannot speak.


So although the goal of a Buddhist monk is to be SELFLESS as The Buddha was, JUST because they don't worship your god they go to hell? Even though they're probably a hundred times more disciplined, moral, intelligent and selfless than most of the undisciplined, stupid and selfish American Christians? Your god seems to have a pathetic standard as to who can get in heaven and how one goes about it =/. Oo Plus, personally, Buddhism is the only Religion/Philosophy which has ever helped me in anyway whatsoever. And I WAS Christian, per se.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 07:56 am
@Carico,
Carico;66778 wrote:
Again, you have to discern the wolves in sheep's clothing from the true sheep. Smile

Some atheists are happy because they enjoy sin. It's those who are unhappy that have the potential for redemption. Ecclesiastes 7:4, "The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure." Wink


Wow, how did I know you would say that? :dunno:

Any Christians that don't live up to your standards are automatically labeled false Christians no matter what.

No true Scotsman fallacy.


You've employed yet another fallacy in your argument. I'm shocked :rollinglaugh:
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Carico
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 08:06 am
@Ares cv,
Ares;66793 wrote:
So although the goal of a Buddhist monk is to be SELFLESS as The Buddha was, JUST because they don't worship your god they go to hell? Even though they're probably a hundred times more disciplined, moral, intelligent and selfless than most of the undisciplined, stupid and selfish American Christians? Your god seems to have a pathetic standard as to who can get in heaven and how one goes about it =/. Oo Plus, personally, Buddhism is the only Religion/Philosophy which has ever helped me in anyway whatsoever. And I WAS Christian, per se.


Sorry, but one can't be selfless if he takes credit for his selflessness. that's pride at its peak. Wink

That's why Jesus said; "He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself. But the one who works for the honor or the one who sent him is a man of truth. There is nothing false about him."

That's because when one lives to glorify God, not oneself, he gains nothing from it because it gives God glory, not himself. Thus he can be trustworthy. Wink
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