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Darwinism: The Worst So-Called Scientific Deception-1

 
 
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 09:50 pm
The evildoers are indeed misguided and insane. (Surat al-Qamar, 47)

Ismail Mutlu, Portents of Doomsday in the Light of Bediuzzaman's Analyses, Mutlu Publishing, Istanbul, 1996, p. 117
[ii]The Concise and Expounded Al-Kutub as-Sitta, Prof. Ibrahim Canan, 13th vol., Ankara, 1992, pp. 457-458
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,787 • Replies: 22
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Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 10:08 pm
@ahmetsecer,
MODS!!!!

This is not a place where people come to perpetuate their propaganda. At some point their needs to be debate. At no point does ahmetsecer engage any of the people here in open debate, but merely peddles this propaganda and spams the hell out of the site. Some control needs to exercised here.

I am happy to post counter information, and debate on a personal level. But you have allowed this person to 'post-and-run' thus rendering the name of this site and what it stands for impotent.

Numpty.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 10:55 pm
@Numpty,
Preaching religion in the science section again?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 06:13 am
@Sabz5150,
Please learn the difference between Darwinism and evolutionary theory!



The term Darwinism is often used by promoters of creationism to describe evolution, notably by leading members of the intelligent design movement.[1] In this usage, the term has connotations of atheism. For example, in Charles Hodge's book What Is Darwinism?, Hodge answers the question posed in the book's title by concluding: "It is Atheism."[2][3][4] Creationists use the term Darwinism, often pejoratively, to imply that the theory has been held as true only by Darwin and a core group of his followers, who they cast as dogmatic and inflexible in their belief.[5] Casting evolution as a doctrine or belief bolsters religiously motivated political arguments to mandate equal time for the teaching of creationism in public schools.

However, Darwinism is also used neutrally within the scientific community to distinguish modern evolutionary theories from those first proposed by Darwin, as well as by historians to differentiate it from other evolutionary theories from around the same period. For example, Darwinism may be used to refer to Darwin's proposed mechanism of natural selection, in comparison to more recent theories such as genetic drift and gene flow.
0 Replies
 
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 02:27 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;62322 wrote:
Preaching religion in the science section again?


If Darwinism can be preached in the science section, why can't other religious theories also be discussed?:p
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 09:03 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62367 wrote:
If Darwinism can be preached in the science section, why can't other religious theories also be discussed?:p


Show me exactly how evolutionary biology is a religion.

And if it really is a religion, then I guess you don't want to follow that yearly ritual people call a "flu shot".

Ever wonder why you get one every year?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 06:22 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62367 wrote:
If Darwinism can be preached in the science section, why can't other religious theories also be discussed?:p


Religion deals with the supernatural

science deals with the natural
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 07:22 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;62375 wrote:


(1) Show me exactly how evolutionary biology is a religion.

(2) And if it really is a religion, then I guess you don't want to follow that yearly ritual people call a "flu shot".

(3) Ever wonder why you get one every year?


1) Evolutionary biology requires a faithwalk just like every other religion

2) All religions have good points and bad points. I am not exactly sure how you claim that evolutionary biology can take entire ownership of the development of flu shots but if it can then that is certainly a good result that has come from the faithwalk that evolutionists have traveled.

3) no. I usually wonder why I don't get it every year when I should.
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 07:31 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62389 wrote:
Religion deals with the supernatural

science deals with the natural


Religion deals with both.

True science, in my opinion deals with both.

science as seen by our secular culture only deals with that portion of the natural that we have arbitrarily determined as natural.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 07:59 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62396 wrote:
Religion deals with both.

True science, in my opinion deals with both.

science as seen by our secular culture only deals with that portion of the natural that we have arbitrarily determined as natural.


"For many the term science refers to the organized body of knowledge concerning the physical world, both animate and inanimate, but a proper definition would also have to include the attitudes and methods through which this body of knowledge is formed; thus, a science is both a particular kind of activity and also the results of that activity."


Science cannot deal with the supernatural because the supernatural is untestable.
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 08:02 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62402 wrote:
"For many the term science refers to the organized body of knowledge concerning the physical world, both animate and inanimate, but a proper definition would also have to include the attitudes and methods through which this body of knowledge is formed; thus, a science is both a particular kind of activity and also the results of that activity."


Science cannot deal with the supernatural because the supernatural is untestable.


What is untestable today is not necessarily untestable tomorrow and what we see as supernatural today may very well be natural tomorrow, as well.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 08:27 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62405 wrote:
What is untestable today is not necessarily untestable tomorrow and what we see as supernatural today may very well be natural tomorrow, as well.


except god by the very definition of the word is supernatural, if god was natural he wouldn't be god.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:19 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62395 wrote:
1) Evolutionary biology requires a faithwalk just like every other religion


Evolutionary biology has evidence to support it. Lots of evidence to be exact. There's a good bit of it inside you right now. Nothing in evolutionary biology is stated without fact to support it. Nothing.

Quote:
2) All religions have good points and bad points. I am not exactly sure how you claim that evolutionary biology can take entire ownership of the development of flu shots but if it can then that is certainly a good result that has come from the faithwalk that evolutionists have traveled.


I never said anything about taking entire ownership. Watch closely, this is where you learn something:

Quote:
3) no. I usually wonder why I don't get it every year when I should.


The reason that you need to get a flu shot every year is not because the one you got before doesn't work anymore... it's because the flu has adapted to that particular vaccine. It has evolved. It is this which makes the flu difficult to combat... the same with the common cold. This is what happens when you adjust the environment (that non-random part I explained to you). Evolutionary biology allows us to predict these changes and make another batch of juice every year.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:21 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62405 wrote:
What is untestable today is not necessarily untestable tomorrow and what we see as supernatural today may very well be natural tomorrow, as well.


Supernatural... literally means above or beyond nature. The field which studies nature cannot show any evidence for the supernatural because of the very nature of the supernatural. It is outside of the field.

Remember one thing: all tests in science require a control. How do you control a deity?
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 09:38 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;62500 wrote:
Supernatural... literally means above or beyond nature. The field which studies nature cannot show any evidence for the supernatural because of the very nature of the supernatural. It is outside of the field.

Remember one thing: all tests in science require a control. How do you control a deity?


Where is the control group in theorizing the evolution of mankind?
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 10:38 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62513 wrote:
Where is the control group in theorizing the evolution of mankind?


The exact same thing that is the control for the evolution of every living thing: the environment. A group of organisms living in the same geographical location are all subject to the same environmental pressure. That's the non-random part of natural selection. Genetic mutation is the variable... the part that is different from organism to organism.
0 Replies
 
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 12:57 am
@ahmetsecer,
"In scientific experiments, there are experimental and control groups. In the control group all variables are held constant. The control group is subjected to the same actions or procedures as the experimental group except that the independent variable being tested is omitted. ..."

define:CONTROL GROUP - Google Search

Where is the human control group? Where is the repeatable and testable experiment regarding the evolution of humans. Where are the humans that did, are, and continue to evolve vs. the control group of humans that are not?
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 01:19 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62518 wrote:
"In scientific experiments, there are experimental and control groups. In the control group all variables are held constant. The control group is subjected to the same actions or procedures as the experimental group except that the independent variable being tested is omitted. ..."

define:CONTROL GROUP - Google Search

Where is the human control group? Where is the repeatable and testable experiment regarding the evolution of humans. Where are the humans that did, are, and continue to evolve vs. the control group of humans that are not?


DOH!!!

You obviously aren't learning anything from Sabz here.

Look at the fossil records and yee shall see, look at DNA and yee shall see, Look at the Human Genome Project.

Human genome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:
The exact same thing that is the control for the evolution of [SIZE="6"]every living thing[/SIZE]: the environment. A group of organisms living in the same geographical location are all subject to the same environmental pressure. That's the non-random part of natural selection. Genetic mutation is the variable... the part that is different from organism to organism.


How long to you think Evolution takes? 1-2 years,10-20 years, 100-200 years 1000-2000 years, 100,000-200,000 years 1 Million-2 million years 100-200 Million years. Guess What,.....ALL OF THE ABOVE. Depends on the organism, be it Single cell amoeba's to Blue Whales. Thats the beauty of Evolution, marvel in all it's wonder, it truely is amazing when you consider how the world got to where it is today.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 01:39 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62518 wrote:
"In scientific experiments, there are experimental and control groups. In the control group all variables are held constant. The control group is subjected to the same actions or procedures as the experimental group except that the independent variable being tested is omitted. ..."

define:CONTROL GROUP - Google Search


That is a "control group" used for experimentation. I should have used the proper term which is "constant". My mistake. However it still stands that for testing for a deity, this piece does not exist.

Quote:
Where is the human control group? Where is the repeatable and testable experiment regarding the evolution of humans. Where are the humans that did, are, and continue to evolve vs. the control group of humans that are not?


Chromosome 2 is a very valid and testable (not to mention admissible in a court of law) experiment and prediction showing the evolution of humans. In fact, this was a bit of a stumbling block in showing common descent of humans and modern great apes. Evolutionary biology made a prediction, this prediction was verified.

Humans continue to evolve and always will. There are always random mutations present for the variable and the environment is your constant.

Here's a good example:

Take the mutation known as CCR5delta32. This is a mutation regarding T-cells and some of their receptors being deactivated (delta refers to a deletion of genetic code, in this case the code that handles these receptors). What does this mutation do? It provides a natural immunity to AIDS... the virus cannot attack the T-cells because its normal avenue, being the aforementioned receptors, is now blocked. Now, what do you suppose will happen to humans bearing this mutation in an environment where the AIDS virus is rampant? You guessed it! They survive and pass on that mutation. Those that do not possess this mutation are more likely to die... their genetic line stops.

An excellent example of environmental pressure selecting a random mutation.

But let's play the game differently... let's change our constant...

Instead of AIDS being prominent in our test environment, let's make West Nile the environmental constant. CCR5delta32 makes its bearer more susceptible to WNV. Environmental pressure then selects against this mutation. Those that have it are at a higher risk of death, thereby not passing on the mutation... their lines end.

Final question, class. What will happen to a group where neither of these environmental pressures are present? That's rather easy... natural selection will not play upon this mutation, and it will be distributed randomly through the populace, its presence is not positive or negative.

In an experiment to predict this facet of evolutionary biology, what would our third group of humans be called? That's right... a control group.

Class dismissed Smile
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 04:59 am
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;62520 wrote:
That is a "control group" used for experimentation. I should have used the proper term which is "constant". My mistake. However it still stands that for testing for a deity, this piece does not exist.



Chromosome 2 is a very valid and testable (not to mention admissible in a court of law) experiment and prediction showing the evolution of humans. In fact, this was a bit of a stumbling block in showing common descent of humans and modern great apes. Evolutionary biology made a prediction, this prediction was verified.

Humans continue to evolve and always will. There are always random mutations present for the variable and the environment is your constant.

Here's a good example:

Take the mutation known as CCR5delta32. This is a mutation regarding T-cells and some of their receptors being deactivated (delta refers to a deletion of genetic code, in this case the code that handles these receptors). What does this mutation do? It provides a natural immunity to AIDS... the virus cannot attack the T-cells because its normal avenue, being the aforementioned receptors, is now blocked. Now, what do you suppose will happen to humans bearing this mutation in an environment where the AIDS virus is rampant? You guessed it! They survive and pass on that mutation. Those that do not possess this mutation are more likely to die... their genetic line stops.

An excellent example of environmental pressure selecting a random mutation.

But let's play the game differently... let's change our constant...

Instead of AIDS being prominent in our test environment, let's make West Nile the environmental constant. CCR5delta32 makes its bearer more susceptible to WNV. Environmental pressure then selects against this mutation. Those that have it are at a higher risk of death, thereby not passing on the mutation... their lines end.

Final question, class. What will happen to a group where neither of these environmental pressures are present? That's rather easy... natural selection will not play upon this mutation, and it will be distributed randomly through the populace, its presence is not positive or negative.

In an experiment to predict this facet of evolutionary biology, what would our third group of humans be called? That's right... a control group.

Class dismissed Smile



Once again I marvel at your knowledge. Thanks for the lesson, I learned alot there.:thumbup:
 

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