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Tue 21 Oct, 2008 11:21 am
Sins cannot be cancelled simply without suffering their result
The One and the Only Way
The only way to get rid of all the difficulties in this world is to become a real devotee of Lord Datta. Datta means something, which is given. Lord Datta means the human form, through which the 'God' (Parabrahman) is given to this world. All incarnations like Krishna, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha etc., are called Datta. God cannot be even imagined. So there is no question of worshipping the God, but such unimaginable God takes a human form and comes down to this world. Such human form is called incarnation. The human form is like a metallic wire. God is like the current, passing through the metallic wire. The current pervades all over the wire. Similarly, God pervades all over the body of human incarnation. Wherever you touch the wire the current is experienced. Similarly, the human body of incarnation is God everywhere.
Lord Krishna is the human incarnation of God. When you touch the feet of Lord Krishna you have touched the feet of the God. But the human body of incarnation follows only the rules of the nature. If you beat such human body it suffers with the same pain as an ordinary human body suffers. Why this human body is not beyond the rules of nature?
The purpose of the human body is to suffer with pain like any other human body, whenever the results of the sins of the devotees are taken. If the human body is above the nature, then it will not suffer with pain. Then it becomes cheating the justice. So Datta means the human body given to this world of devotees for the sake of suffering their sins. The only way to get rid of your sins is to catch Datta (The contenmproary human incarnation). In no other way your sins are postponed. You will have to suffer your sins in the future life along with interest. The cycle of 'Karma' is very much inevitable. The scriptures say 'Avasyam anubhoktavyam', which means that one has to enjoy the results of his own deeds rather good or bad.
There are only 3 ways.
1) To enjoy the fruits of bad deeds now itself.
2) To enjoy the fruits of bad deeds in your future along with interest.
3) To catch Datta and transfer the fruits of all your sins to Him.
Out of these three ways a scholar will not accept the second way. A devotee will never agree to the third way. A scholar and a devotee will agree the first way only and is prepared to undergo the results of the sins now itself. He will never ask God to relieve him from the results of the sin. In such a stage nobody becomes a devotee of God, because there is no benefit from God. But still one can become a devotee. Let us take the case of a fan of a film hero. The fan does not get any benefit from the film hero. Instead of getting benefit, the fan spends from his pocket and the fan is put to loss. He became the fan attracted by good virtues of the hero shown in the various films. Such a fan is ideal for the devotee. The devotee is attracted towards Datta by the sixteen divine qualities. The devotee is worshipping Datta because he is attracted by the divine personality of Datta and not for any benefit from Datta. Even if he is put to loss he will not leave Datta. He wants to undergo all the sufferings now itself. As a scholar, he does not want to postpone the suffering of his sins, because he has to pay the interest. As a devotee he does not want the suffering of Datta for his sake. Therefore, His devotee is not at all connected to the removal of his sufferings. His love (Bhakti) to Datta continues irrespective of his sufferings. The love to Datta is really proved by his service to Datta. He continues to serve Datta while suffering due to the sins. Such scholar-devotee is the real devotee of Datta. Now, Datta takes over all his sins and suffers for his sake. The devotee is not aware of this. If the devotee is aware, he will strongly object Datta. So Datta suffers for his sins secretly without the knowledge of the real devotee. This is the only way to get rid of your sins really. Except this one way there is no other way to escape your sins. In all the other ways either you have to undergo your sins then itself or if you pester God too much, your sins will be postponed and you have to enjoy those sins with interest.
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@dattaswami cv,
In Christianity there are consequences of sins, but acceptance of Christ as savior removes the eternal penalty for the sin.
@marcus cv,
marcus;61875 wrote:In Christianity there are consequences of sins, but acceptance of Christ as savior removes the eternal penalty for the sin.
In all my replies 'you' means not you, please rememeber that.
Jesus also told you will see, people from east coming and siting in the kingdom of God and you will be thrown outside of it and you will weep.
He also told you should be vigilent so that you should come out of attachment to this world, other wise you will be like that virgin girls who did not prepared before hand with oil, and were rejected when the bride groome came.
He gain told those who simply call will not get salvation, unless they practice My preaching of divine knowledge, of salvation which is developing and serving Him without any expectation.
@dattaswami cv,
dattaswami;61882 wrote:Acceptance of Jesus will not save you. Mere acceptance will not save. Unless you leave all the attachments for His sake you are not saved. When you are bounded to some thing or some body how you can be saved? So come out of theoretical proclaimation. Lord Jesus is not a fool and He is the top most genius. If you read bible care fully then you will see how much strict was He in preaching the knoweldge of Salvation. He even told if one put his hand on the plaugh and looks back is not even eligible to enter the kingdom of God.
Finally we agreed on something
I think that's the old discussion, Jesus said that but you are taking it to the extreme.
Quote:
To deserving devotees only He told the above statement. To all other low level devotees who are only doing theoretical worship and prayers His disciple after preached that Just believe you will be saved. This is only for an encouragement. Once a newcomer hear such verses his belief in God increases, after wards he may follow the path of Salvation by really cutting all his attachments for God's sake.
There is no deserving or non deserving. John 3:16, For God so loved the world ...
Quote:
SO, first understand the meaing of salvation itself. Salvation is not a picnic tour. It is a path of misery for God's sake where very very very very few people travel.
If that would be the case I would be long time gone from the Christianity. The Christianity is not the misery but it's fulfillment and satisfaction. It's the accomplishment of self actualization Maslov wrote about.
Things a christian person need to sacrifice are related to his flesh giving room to the Spirit. I hope one day you know the true meaning of the Christianity.
@marcus cv,
marcus;62096 wrote:Finally we agreed on something
I think that's the old discussion, Jesus said that but you are taking it to the extreme.
There is no deserving or non deserving. John 3:16, For God so loved the world ...
If that would be the case I would be long time gone from the Christianity. The Christianity is not the misery but it's fulfillment and satisfaction. It's the accomplishment of self actualization Maslov wrote about.
Things a christian person need to sacrifice are related to his flesh giving room to the Spirit. I hope one day you know the true meaning of the Christianity.
Dear Marcus;
I appreaciate your faith on Lord Jesus. But it may not be sufficient to give you salvation, because your love on Him is theoretical ony and which do not have any value infront of God.
Your love on Him should be practical the same way you show your love on your children. You are only saying some prayers. It is not valid since there is not practise.
A person who is salvated is very very rare case, as Jesus Himself told, since the path is very tough and only one or 2 travels in that. Now you are claiming that just believing in Jesus you are salvated. How it is possible!!
Jesus is not a fool to give salvation just like that. Salvation is not a picnic tour to be happy with your family affairs and at the end you get salvation which is invaluable! It is not a childs play. You have to break all the attachmet to your family and other things of the world, finally the attachment to your self. Which is very very difficult. But who have pure in devotion to God who lOVE Him and who have conquered their jealosy and egoism and who have recognised the Lord in human form and served Him now in this world itself such people only will get the salvation. They are His people only. Not all people will get salvation. That is your false belief only.
God is very much genious and He knows who to give salvation. There are millions of saint who toiled and suffered for salvation and loved God such people only get salvation not all !!
@dattaswami cv,
Thanks for the compassionate response.
You are talking about Christ quite a bit without understanding the purpose of His coming. Based on your theology he didn't have to come. We can attain the heaven by our own deeds. He came because in fact we couldn't attain the heaven by our own works. (Maybe you but not me
)
The first revelation of God was the account of works, the covenant of works, and Adam failed, he couldn't do it. Than by Christ alone we attain the heaven, no works. That's the biggest point of the discussion.
When it comes to suffering, please believe me I understand what it is, and what it takes to suffer. I live in the States where no suffering for your faith, and thanks God for that. But my father, grandfather and great grand father they all suffered, were sentenced to death, spent time in jail, but believe me no one of them would say that they attain the heaven because of that, because they did something good. It's only because of blood of Jesus.
@marcus cv,
marcus;62140 wrote:Thanks for the compassionate response.
You are talking about Christ quite a bit without understanding the purpose of His coming. Based on your theology he didn't h.ecause of blood of Jesus.
You are contradicting Jesus. When Jesus told many will try but few will get salvation is it joking? He told unless you hate your own self and work for the mission of God without any expectation you are not eligible to received salvation. Are to making mockery of Jesus?
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