Satanism thread. This is for you "MagistraY"

First of all "belief" doesn't enter into Satanism. As rational atheists, what we may or may not believe is irrelevant. All of our actions/dogma are based on what we know.

Therefore my position, as is the Church of Satan's is that man evidently requires fellowship, ritual and dogma--in other words man has a need for religion. That fact clashes with both humanistic and atheistic philosophies. Therefore Satanism embraces and accepts that need, replacing belief in a literal deity for a metaphorical concept.

As for me--well I was raised in a religious cluster#*%$ My parents were hippies and in an attempt to fit in with what I saw as "normal" people I would accompany my Catholic family members to church, my Jewish family members to Temple, and I went to a Quaker boarding school. I read the bible avidly, and studied comparative religion even as a child.

When I was studying to convert to Catholicism in preparation for marriage I was told by the Priest that I had too many questions. I responded that he had too few answers. Shortly thereafter I discovered Wicca, and for a long time I was a Wiccan High Priestess who ran occult bookstores and began doing civil rights work and public speaking. Wicca, however, as it got more popular, became more and more like traditional religion to me---replacing beautiful Jungian archetypes used for self-empowerment with literal godesses that required worship. 'not my cup of tea.

In Satanism we say "Satanists are born, not made," which is why we do not actively recruit. We know the personal path of discovery may take any number of detours, but eventually a real Satanist will find us and embrace their true nature. Mine came in 1992 when I went with a CoS member to San Francisco and had the honor to meet The Satanic Bible author and founder of The Church of Satan, Anton LaVey. It is a long story but can be seen on

Amazon.com: The 666 - The Sign Of Evil-Unexplained: Unexplained Series: Video

Since then I have been nothing but proud and grateful and finally, at real peace, because I am where my true nature is--an atheist who loves the psychodrama and pageantry of religion, without the surrender and abandonment of personal responsibility.

Y~

Of course belief enters into it, i think the word you are looking for is "faith" then i would agree.

I disagree, there have been many people who live full lives without religion or dogma.

Certainly faith is anathema to me and all Satanists. Arguing the word know vs. belief would be dull and ultimately a demonstration of semantics that really doesn't matter. Lots of folks believe in God and consider this "knowing." I am not so stodgy as to give a flying rat's butt about the choice of this word beyond saying I personally disdain the word belief.

As one who finds human evolution fascinating I have spent years pondering why behaviors that seem needless and counter-productive, such as group religion, have passed the Darwin test and continued to the present day, despite all evidence that they really serve no obvious need.

My opinion, shared by some, not by others--and since it is my opinion, I am not claiming it to be fact, is that religion itself is an evolutionary hold-over, a way to ensure strength in numbers, promote alliances and provide a shared mystical experience that allows a superior attitude.

Sure, lots of people today dismiss religion altogether, but even that allows a degree of fellowship, both within an organization (American Atheists) or outside of one (the grouping of people who refuse to be grouped.)

In Satanism, and for myself personally I accept that ritual solidifies these relationships as a shared expression. For us we call it "decompression," a tool that allows us to create our own catharsis and move on to the business of living. Many might find it interesting to know that most Satanists, after the first few years, may perform a ritual every couple of years, or not at all. As a religion that hails the individual there is no obligation.

Dogma provides the information that allows potential group members to affirm and join, or to disavow and go elsewhere. It further allows an organization to define itself and what is and isn't acceptable to maintain a relationship with the group.

Y~

I think that was the case, especially in early human history, but i don't think it's necessary in this day and age. We have other means to accomplish the same end and without the irrationality that seems to often accompany religion.

Keeping in mind that you asked about my personal experiences, certainly you will find error in my stance, because it is my stance, not yours, and obviously we see things differently, or you'd be a Satanist, and I'd be an atheist. I am kind of surprised no one else has jumped in--perhaps they are following both board rules and the adage to say nothing if you have nothing nice to say!

What is happening here between you and I is the response Satanists give to the question "Why, if you dismiss all god-forms and act out your lives mostly as atheists, aren't you just atheists or even humanists and instead, Satanists?"

Through our various conversations the answer to that query becomes plain. We accept and enjoy the human need for ritual as a psychological tool. We are not content to simply dismiss traditional religions, but instead we demonstrate that their very dogma demands a lack of personal responsibility, a genocidal bent, and that their absurd fear of words and images do nothing more than demonstrate a mirror image of that which they fear most, and what we embrace most: Man's carnal nature.

And again, we are perfectly alright with being a minority religion. Our biggest problem is those who attempt to join based on what Christianity has to say about us and are them completely disappointed to find out that our demands of study, rational self-interest and responsibility for the responsible are infinitely more important to the Satanist than orgies, grave desecration and saying the Lord's Prayer backwards.

Back to your post:

We can do without any number of things.

If we lived only on necessity my guess would be that we'd still be pretty primitive.

Humanity has developed want in addition to need.

For me, when I joined the CoS, it was like the most direct access to people like me I'd ever had---and that is even stranger because it isn't like we agree on everything. We have arch conservatives, progressive liberals, and all manner in between including the non-political. We have polygamist, celibate and monogamous members. We have those who wear their Satanism on their sleeves, dressed all in black and surgical horns, tattoos and piercings. We have preppies, jocks, and those who appear to have come straight from the pages of 1930's detective magazines. We have lawyers, computer programmers, soccer moms, and artists. Some members are completely private, others have chosen, like me, to be public.

What connects us all is a weird dark aesthetic whimsy coupled with a disgust for the denial of human nature demanded by traditional religions.

It sounds elitist and it is, but we readily admit to being a mutual admiration society, a group of people who generally wouldn't join a group, and a system of hierarchy that demands each individual excel at that which makes them happy, individually. In other words our meritocracy is highly individualized--it has nothing to do with what society deems successful, but what brings each member joy.

Wow....got on a bit of a rant there.

Please excuse, I am in the middle of cortisone therapy for a seriously injured back and am on enough pain medication to knock out a horse. Just like I can't seem to do anything else normal, instead of crashing, I get verbose.

Y~

Have you ever considered other non-theistic religions?

My career has depended upon me doing research on ALL religions, particularly "alternative" ones. So yes, I have examined most secular religions/humanistic/ and non-theistic.

Their validity is obvious.

For me, however, there is not the slightest doubt that I am where I belong.

Y~

As long as you can justify your beliefs you are okay by me. And it appears you can. :thumbup:

C'mon Champ! Imagine how boring the world would be if everyone could actually justify their religions/beliefs/faiths!!??

We might actually have to take people based on their actions........YIKES!

Y~