dattaswami, in response to your website.

"But you are also incapable of directly proving the non-existence of these super worlds."

My response: Correct, i am not capable of disproving many things, but i won't believe in them simply because i cannot disprove them. If i did my head would be filled with a great number of fantasies simply because i cannot disprove them. The burden of proof lies on the person who claims these places exist.


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"Have you searched all over the universe and said ?Here ends the universe. Beyond this point there is no universe. This is the compound-wall of space. Your super worlds do not exist anywhere?"

My response: I do not claim to know that these places do not exist, simply that i do not believe in them.



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"there is an equal chance for the existence and non-existence of the super worlds according to the theory of probability."

My response: Simply because there are two options does not mean the two options hold equal weight. Also probability is not a theory but a mathematical concept.

Atheists do not believe in hell,

- heaven and abode of God.
The souls will return from hell and heaven, ? not from God.
For mere social service ? God created temporary heaven.
On the earth the soul is given - opportunity to develop itself.
By social service it may go to ? heaven for some time,
Or it may reach permanent ? abode of God by selecting
God in human form here, - freedom is given to soul.
God does not want to disturb ? the soul on this earth
By giving punishments constantly, - earth is not hell.
The soul is engaged in effort ? with free opportunity here.

Hence, the punishments for the soul ? are reserved in hell.
Similarly heavenly luxuries ? may divert the soul here
From the possible efforts ? for trying for Nivrutti in this life.
Hence, luxuries are postponed ? to heaven after death.

The abode of God as - upper most world is also required,
Because for the souls - in energetic bodies after death,

A separate world with God ? in energetic body is required, so that
The liberated soul by Nivrutti ? is constantly associated with God.
Such soul assists the Lord here ? by coming in material body again.

Atheists say that today ? rockets have gone even to moon, hence,
There is no hell, heaven and ? the abode of God in the space.

But scientists say that space is infinite

? no rocket has gone
Up to the boundary of space ? to say that space ends there.

Did you show compound wall ? along the boundary of space?

If there is a compound wall,

The space is infinite and ? you have not shown absence of
Hell, heaven and abode of God ? by showing the limits of space.

Of course, we have not shown to you ? their presence also.
There is fifty-fifty probability ? for absence and existence.

Let us assume their absence ? what is the loss for me,
If I believed their presence ? and acted accordingly?

Let us assume their presence, - what will be your fate? Think.
You will be powdered in hell,

- here also due to over luxuries
You have lost health and peace, - loss here as well as there.

Unimaginable miracles are seen ? unimaginable events in life give
The experience of unimaginable God,

- better to believe,
Even by logic of probability, ? which is scientific concept.

Even the infinite space of cosmos ? is a standing example for
The existence of unimaginable

? nature, this is cosmic vision
Shown by Krishna to Arjuna,

? it is miracle for any one to see.

Such belief in God by probability ? is a partial faith only,

But it is better than no faith ? of atheism assisted by science.

The full faith alone gives ? the final eternal divine fruit.
The above partial faith ? should slowly result in full faith.

Building is there. Implies Builder should be there. Creation is there. Creator should be there.

I can see the building, which is in front of my eyes, but builder need not stand in front of the building.

He will be in his own job. If you want to meet the builder, you should definitely put effort to locate the builder and see him.

Likewise Creation is there in front of our eyes.

But have we put anytime effort to locate and identify the creator? Instead of that, with least effort we can propagate to others also that God is not there.

They are not only blinded, they are making others also blinded. Some people who are theists may become prey for the propagation of this ignorance also unfortunately. The greatest sin on the earth is to be unfaithful.

To identify the builder you should know the identification marks,

where he lives, what he does etc.. and we have to inquire if we don't know. This is to say that knowledge is required to identify any person.

This knowledge is called divine knowledge

if the aim is to identify the Lord, which actually only is to be propagated. Lord created this universe for the enjoyment without any selfish motive and we human beings are enjoying the creation.

Like through nice parents, wife, children, beautiful nature consisting of pleasant looking mountains, rivers, sea, nature, changing weather etc.

If we cannot please the Lord, the human life is incomplete.

We serve our family members by spending our hard earned money and also physically. Are we not serving family as Servant, and these family members are nearly equal to us.

Where as, Lord is omnipotent and requires no help from us, many times satisfied our desires, saved us from mishaps etc. and if we cannot bow our head in front of Him, it is very ridiculous. It is very great honour to serve Him, this is the path followed by His real devotees. These real devotees could overcome ego and always wants to serve Him as servant.

Jesus preached the gospel and His followers participated in His mission as servants for further propagation of divine knowledge. These great devotees never hesitated to serve Lord Jesus and their names have also been known even today.

Immediately you will accept the possessor of the super power (Mayi) who is the Lord as said in the subsequent line of the same verse (Mayinamtu Maheshwaram?.).

Therefore, the deep analysis of the nature which is Science is exposing the miracle of God to every body in this world and there is no need of a separate miracle.

Therefore, Science is the best religion exposing the existence of God to every ordinary human being on this earth including atheist.

Therefore, I have given a place for Science in the symbol of Universal Spirituality.

A scientist does not require a separate miracle to recognize the existence of God

like a realized soul since the deeper analysis of this nature reveals the unimaginable power of God

A scientist who does not believe the existence of God is not a scientist at all.

thats a bit of wishful thinking on your part, don't you think?



science does not deal with the supernatural. Science only deals with phenomena. Scientists neither prove nor disprove the existence of god.




Science is not a religion. It deals not with supernatural nor does it rely on faith, in fact science discourages faith and embraces logic and evidence.



that's nice.



recognizing god is not the job of a scientist.



how so?



so if a scientist disagree with you (which is like 90% of them) then they don't count as scientists? That is very arrogant of you to say.

For theist scholars the unimaginable events in the life indicate the unimaginable God. For devotees the miracles performed by the human incarnations indicate the unimaginable God. For ignorant theists, the devilish people who perform black magic indicate the unimaginable God. For scientists the unimaginable concepts in the deeper planes of nature indicate the unimaginable God. God created the nature, which is partly and superficially imaginable. In the absence of imaginable nature, the very contrast concept of unimaginable nature disappears. If there is no darkness, light will loose its sense. Atheists interpret all the above unimaginable items in other way.

The unimaginable events in the life are interpreted as incidents of probable coincidence. The miracles and black magic are interpreted as the usual magic based on the illusion of eyes. The unimaginable concepts in the deeper nature are said to have the future explanations because the unimaginable concepts of yesterday are explained today. Therefore, God established one unimaginable item, which is witnessed by every human being at any time. That is the unimaginable infinite boundary of the universe. Scientists accept that the universe is infinite forever. This indicates the unimaginable God, who is beyond the limits of the universe since He is the cause of the universe. This point is focused in the cosmic vision given by the Lord to Arjuna (Nantostimama?. Gita).

define unimaginable!



For me the concept of a "million" is unimaginable but that does not mean it is "other-worldly" in any way.

define unimaginable!



For me the concept of a "million" is unimaginable but that does not mean it is "other-worldly" in any way.

If you choose that way, silence only indicates God and some have followed this way also.

Fatal_Freedoms;

The unimaginable God (you can never define God like any other worldly object, because you define any earthly object say chair, because it is existing and you have seen it, so any worldly item has got dimension of space and time; but God is not like the existence of worldly items, God exists but His existence is not like worldly item) is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam? Veda).

It is silly to define the essence of something by whether or not you can imagine it, this is a completely subjective measure that means different things to different people.



Ps. I don't care what the veda's says....unless you can independently test every statement made within it, it means nothing to me or anyone else in this group.

Fatal_Freedoms;

This is the practical problem in revealing the absolute truth.

The basis is the observation of this world containing all imaginable items only. Hence all his logic is based on the observation of the nature of imaginable items and the relationships between the imaginable items only.

This means that the preacher should say that God is an imaginable item and the imaginable process of generation of the imaginable world from imaginable God is in imaginable way only.

The introduction of the word ?Unimaginable? by the preacher leads the student to think that the preacher is ignorant. Hence to satisfy the student and to solve this practical problem, the preacher has to make certain assumptions and should preach about God through hypothesis only and not through real theory.

The reality is that the unimaginable God created the world through unimaginable way.

But to satisfy the student the hypothesis introduced here is that God is pure awareness.

Here the infinite ocean of pure awareness is an assumption created because there is no proof of such ocean of awareness anywhere because you can find only the infinite ocean of inert energy. The infinite ocean of awareness is created by the preacher and such ocean charged by God can be treated as God Himself like the live wire treated as current. Now the student is satisfied.

Similarly, the creation of world from God should be also done through the imaginable way answering all the objections through imaginable ways only. This makes again the creation of another assumption for the process of creating the world by God.

The assumption here is that a second unimaginable item called as the power of God is created which is modified into the world. Since the power is negligible, the world is negligible and maintains the existence of single God or Brahman. It is like the dream of a person created by the modification of the mind and the mind is negligible compared to the materialistic person. In course of time to satisfy the logic of students, changes in the hypothesis are made by Ramanuja and Madhva who introduced the assumption of a separate material, which is modified as the world without any connection to God.

The hypothetical assumptions can be varied for the sake of preaching the truth to the students in order to satisfy their logic developed from the observation of the world containing only imaginable items. This does not mean that the theories are different.

There is only one real theory that both God and the link between God and world are unimaginable.

The fine-tuning you see is the result of millions of years of trial and error.

If you did anything for a million years, chances are, you'd be pretty good at it. The same goes for the functions of life forms.

Fine tuning in everything related to technology, even seemingly meaningless technology such as how a child's toy jumps when wound properly requires forethought, study and adjustments by a thinking, acting being or beings. They were not tried and judged working or non-working by "chance".