Numpty
 
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 09:03 am
This relates to another thread regarding a young girl who died becasue her parents, instead of accepting medical help, chose to pray for her healing. Unfortunatley the Girl died and the parents are now on Manslaugter charges.

So My Paradox is:

If Everyone who dies, man, woman or child dies because of Gods will.

Why were we allowed the ability to heal people?

Essentially the society we live in today has advanced to the stage where we can cure most diseases, cancers, broken limbs and pretty much most other general medical conditions.

So God created us in his image, gave us intelligence and sent us on our merry way. We have in last 100 years really begun to undestand the human body and how to 'fix' it. Why would we be given this knowledge if we were not allowed to use it to 'help' people?

There for me is the paradox. Someone is given cancer by God (Gods will) Yet with the knowledge God has given us, we are able to cure the individual.

So two things here:

Is God now Fallable because we can now cure the impending death he has given to an individual.

Is the Surgen now condemed to Hell because, although he is doing gods work (helping people) he has gone against Gods will by not allowing an intended death to happen.

Does this make sense?
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Carico
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 11:34 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;66811 wrote:
This relates to another thread regarding a young girl who died becasue her parents, instead of accepting medical help, chose to pray for her healing. Unfortunatley the Girl died and the parents are now on Manslaugter charges.

So My Paradox is:

If Everyone who dies, man, woman or child dies because of Gods will.

Why were we allowed the ability to heal people?

Essentially the society we live in today has advanced to the stage where we can cure most diseases, cancers, broken limbs and pretty much most other general medical conditions.

So God created us in his image, gave us intelligence and sent us on our merry way. We have in last 100 years really begun to undestand the human body and how to 'fix' it. Why would we be given this knowledge if we were not allowed to use it to 'help' people?

There for me is the paradox. Someone is given cancer by God (Gods will) Yet with the knowledge God has given us, we are able to cure the individual.

So two things here:

Is God now Fallable because we can now cure the impending death he has given to an individual.

Is the Surgen now condemed to Hell because, although he is doing gods work (helping people) he has gone against Gods will by not allowing an intended death to happen.

Does this make sense?


:rollinglaugh: You forget that all people die, mostly under the care of doctors. Very Happy So bringing up one person who chose to pray instead of taking his daughter to the doctor (where she could have died under his care anyway) is absurd. :rolleyes:
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 01:42 pm
@Carico,
Carico;66824 wrote:
:rollinglaugh: You forget that all people die,


Yes, but they die more frequently when their illness does not receive medical attention.


Quote:
mostly under the care of doctors.


This simply isn't true. The number of people who die each day far exceeds the number of doctors by tenfold. In third world nations where death rates are highest there are little to no doctors.

Through the advent of modern medicine people have come to live 30 years longer. Your claim is outrageous and absurdly inaccurate.


Quote:
Very Happy So bringing up one person who chose to pray instead of taking his daughter to the doctor (where she could have died under his care anyway) is absurd. :rolleyes:


Actually this sort of thing is not uncommon:




Girl in Faith Healing Manslaughter Case Described by Medical Examiner as Malnourished

Medical examiner: Ore. girl appeared malnourished

Parents plead guilty in faith-healing death

Teen from Faith-Healing Family Dies at Home - ABC News

Teenage boy from faith-healing family dies

Another Child Dies Due to Faith Healing - Strollerderby




This only goes to point out the obvious, prayer is not a substitute for real medical treatment. Because of the ignorance of these parents these children are now dead. They deserve nothing less than prison.
Carico
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 03:29 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Quote:
This simply isn't true. The number of people who die each day far exceeds the number of doctors by tenfold. In third world nations where death rates are highest there are little to no doctors.


Do you even think?:eek: The number of people who die in hospitals under the care of a doctor far exceeds the number of people who die at home. So your comments are not only ridiculous, you make one false claim after another. The question then becomes; are you ignorant or an outright liar?It's one or the other.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 08:36 pm
@Carico,
Carico;66824 wrote:
:rollinglaugh: You forget that all people die, mostly under the care of doctors. Very Happy So bringing up one person who chose to pray instead of taking his daughter to the doctor (where she could have died under his care anyway) is absurd. :rolleyes:


This is not the point I am trying to make.

Read the question again.

Quote:
Why would we be given this knowledge if we were not allowed to use it to 'help' people?


If everything is Gods will. And we have learn't how to heal (help) people, why would God not want us to use this knowledge?
Carico
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 05:34 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;66850 wrote:
This is not the point I am trying to make.

Read the question again.



If everything is Gods will. And we have learn't how to heal (help) people, why would God not want us to use this knowledge?


Yes it is the point. Choosing not to take one's child to a doctor does not mean that the child would survive if he had been taken to a doctor. There are millions of people who have been healed by prayer alone without ever consulting a doctor.

But it is God who determines how long a person lives whether he's taken to a doctor or not. And He determined that before people were even born:

Psalm 139:16, "All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."


But since man doesn't know the number of anyone's days, then his prayers will not always be answered, whether or not he chooses to consult a doctor. Nevertheless, those who acknowledge that only God determines who lives or dies, go to Him in prayer.
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Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 02:12 am
@Carico,
Carico;66843 wrote:
Do you even think?:eek: The number of people who die in hospitals under the care of a doctor far exceeds the number of people who die at home.


The number of people who have died in hospitals is a tiny fraction of people have have died total. This means more people have died without doctors care.
0 Replies
 
thomascrosthwaite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 08:02 am
@Numpty,
Carica arugments are just another examble of the dangers of fundalmentalism. This is the greatest danger civilization faces. So 'murder by pryer" is o.k, because these people would have died anyway. Don't you realize Carico, that this "logic" could apply to all murders. Why not legalized all murders? Webs - Free website, free hosting, free webpage - Make a web site with photo albums, blogs, videos, forums and more!
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