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Wed 8 Jul, 2009 02:07 am
Is God proud of His work?
You should know that I do not ever expect God to return at some end time because I see His judgment at the beginning of our birth in Genesis as the only judgment that he need?s render.
Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
This very good included all that is, including sin, evil and the woes that were to afflict us, without which we could not develop our moral sense.
To have Him return, red faced, to fix a perfect world is beyond my definition of God. He gets things right the first time, every time.
I believe that when we left the garden we did so with God being proud of His perfect works and not ashamed that He had started us off on the wrong foot, so to speak, from the beginning of our journey.
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
I know that many think of Genesis as the fall of man. This is false.
Man came out of Genesis only after the development of the moral sense that comes from the knowledge of good and evil.
God wanted man to have a moral sense and insured that this would happen by making sure that the talking snake/Satan was there to draw Eve out of any lethargy or laziness of mind and would be lead in the right direction.
I take the advice of the Pope and read the Bible allegorically and see Genesis as a right of passage for all humans from a state of innocence in the home/garden to a search for moral values in the greater society/talking snake.
It is this same society, with it?s differing values that hone our moral sense. It also draws us to sin. As God wants.
Why does God want us to sin?
2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
New Jerusalem
9 The Lord is not being slow in carrying out his promises, as some people think he is; rather is he being patient with you, wanting nobody to be lost and everybody to be brought to repentance.
If we must all come to repentance then clearly we must all sin.
God makes this easy by creating us all with a sinning nature.
It is God?s will that all repent and none be lost and it must be so, if God?s will is supreme.
To think otherwise is to think that God?s will can be thwarted.
If it is then it is not God?s will at all.
So to those who await a second or third judgment from God, forget that silly notion.
He told us it was a good beginning and from good beginnings come good endings.
We are all to be saved which ends the notion of a hell. If you think about hell for just a moment, it is clear from a moral standpoint, that God would not ever invent or create such a place. It would be admitting that He has failed in saving all of us. This is against His will and must be a false interpretation of scripture.
Do you think that God is proud of His creations, or, do you think He will return in shame to -fix- His perfect works?
Regards
DL
@Greatest I am cv,
You're assuming that "God" is a being endowed with some very human faults, and, that the bible is the "word of God".
The God I see before me is a luminous sea of consciousness where anything is possible.
Specifics, are all in passing.
x
@Greatest I am cv,
Considering that God is the potter, one would think he wouldn't make things he wasn't proud of.
@Grouch,
Grouch;65844 wrote:Considering that God is the potter, one would think he wouldn't make things he wasn't proud of.
Yet many see only broken pots around and no good ones.
So much for the faith of believers.
Regards
DL
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;65860 wrote:Yet many see only broken pots around and no good ones.
So much for the faith of believers.
Regards
DL
What man considers good, isn't what God considers good, each pot has a reason to be, and that reason makes it good. If you believe him to be an all powerful, all knowing being anyways.
@Grouch,
Grouch;65868 wrote:What man considers good, isn't what God considers good, each pot has a reason to be, and that reason makes it good. If you believe him to be an all powerful, all knowing being anyways.
I agree but like sin and evil, most do not see the benefits and purpose of these.
Even when I show, with scripture, the reason for sin and repentance they remain in their mind set.
It must be the brainwashing that sheeple get. Even with the R C, when I show them where the Pope says that the Bible is allegory, they still read it literally. Oh well.
Regards
DL
@xexon,
xexon;65842 wrote:You're assuming that "God" is a being endowed with some very human faults, and, that the bible is the "word of God".
The God I see before me is a luminous sea of consciousness where anything is possible.
Specifics, are all in passing.
x
If anything were possible then he could make a sinless man. He has not.
If He could do miracles and does not and wants to be relevant to man then this would not happen and thousands of people would not starve to death daily.
To hold back miracle and not do something about this is immoral.
Starving Child Stalked by Vulture
Regards
DL
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;65873 wrote:I agree but like sin and evil, most do not see the benefits and purpose of these.
Even when I show, with scripture, the reason for sin and repentance they remain in their mind set.
It must be the brainwashing that sheeple get. Even with the R C, when I show them where the Pope says that the Bible is allegory, they still read it literally. Oh well.
Regards
DL
uhhhhh so whats the point of this thread. You're all over the place. :thumbdown:
@Grouch,
Grouch;65892 wrote:uhhhhh so whats the point of this thread. You're all over the place. :thumbdown:
Just wondering if this Christian view is universal.
The Christian way of seeing God is to see Him screwing up heaven with evil.
Strike one.
They then see God screwing up man's beginning in Eden.
Strike two.
They then see God cleaning house in Noah's day with Genocide and starting over.
Strike three.
They now wait for His return at end time to clean house yet again.
Strike four.
Strike four?
God plays by His own rules I guess.
You and I both know that this view must be false.
God gets things right the first time and every time.
This is why He has not and will not return. His perfect systems are here today the same way that they were here in the beginning. It is just to us to see it. I do. Even with sin and evil and woes, all is perfect and humming along exactly as God wants it to. I call it perfection in evolution.
Regards
DL
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;65915 wrote:Just wondering if this Christian view is universal.
The Christian way of seeing God is to see Him screwing up heaven with evil.
Strike one.
They then see God screwing up man's beginning in Eden.
Strike two.
They then see God cleaning house in Noah's day with Genocide and starting over.
Strike three.
They now wait for His return at end time to clean house yet again.
Strike four.
Strike four?
God plays by His own rules I guess.
You and I both know that this view must be false.
God gets things right the first time and every time.
This is why He has not and will not return. His perfect systems are here today the same way that they were here in the beginning. It is just to us to see it. I do. Even with sin and evil and woes, all is perfect and humming along exactly as God wants it to. I call it perfection in evolution.
Regards
DL
I have made this arguement many times my self. I am not a believer, and wont be any time soon. But even so i can see that things would not be the way they are if not for a reason. Call me grim if you may, but perhaps our destiny is only to destroy our selves so that some other creation may come about. Its not that far to think that if god gives us the animals to eat, he gives us sin to destroy our selves to serve an even greater purpose, hence why we humans cannont fully understand the will of god. It would be in our nature to want to go against his will, and continue existance, which in its self would be a paradox since gods will is infailiable and that would prove him failiable.
@abbandonedallhope,
The Bible says that creation was good, and set in perfect order, however, it was man that left the first condition.
Heaven was never a place for the evil or wicked according to the Bible. The Bible does mention people being cast down from heaven, and even heaven being rearranged, but never heaven as being infested and permeated with the evil and the wicked. The Bible has always stated that heaven is not for the wicked, and the wicked do not go there.
The Bible never accuses the creator of destroying his creations since everyone is born into eternal existence. To everyone born they must die once and pass the physical body. The quality of someone's eternal life is said to be of heaven (life) or hell (death), depending on the life they make for themselves.
Source: Swedenborg
@abbandonedallhope,
abbandonedallhope;65959 wrote:I have made this arguement many times my self. I am not a believer, and wont be any time soon. But even so i can see that things would not be the way they are if not for a reason. Call me grim if you may, but perhaps our destiny is only to destroy our selves so that some other creation may come about. Its not that far to think that if god gives us the animals to eat, he gives us sin to destroy our selves to serve an even greater purpose, hence why we humans cannont fully understand the will of god. It would be in our nature to want to go against his will, and continue existance, which in its self would be a paradox since gods will is infailiable and that would prove him failiable.
It is not so much that God cannot be understood, It is that too many speak for Him and all do not say the same thing.
The Bible and logic say that all we need know to know God is good and evil.
We just cannot define these terms while thinking of us and them.
Regards
DL
@billcompugeek,
billcompugeek;65971 wrote:The Bible says that creation was good, and set in perfect order, however, it was man that left the first condition.
Heaven was never a place for the evil or wicked according to the Bible. The Bible does mention people being cast down from heaven, and even heaven being rearranged, but never heaven as being infested and permeated with the evil and the wicked. The Bible has always stated that heaven is not for the wicked, and the wicked do not go there.
The Bible never accuses the creator of destroying his creations since everyone is born into eternal existence. To everyone born they must die once and pass the physical body. The quality of someone's eternal life is said to be of heaven (life) or hell (death), depending on the life they make for themselves.
Source: Swedenborg
If you believe scripture then you cannot believe in a hell.
2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Unless of course you also believe that God's will can be thwarted.
Regards
DL
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