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Can a rich Church or man get into heaven?

 
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 11:05 pm
Can a rich Church or man get into heaven?

Matthew 19:23
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Genesis 13:2
And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

There seems to be a theme throughout scripture that says that wealth is not a good thing yet the Church amasses wealth for it?s own sake and glorification.

Can a Church that does not practice what it preaches lead us to heaven or is wealth actually a good thing.

What comes to mind is Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail.
In selecting the cup of Christ, the proper cup was the poor man?s cup. In contrast, if asked to select the cup of the Church, he would have selected the riches cup.

One has to wonder if the Church is right or if Jesus was.
Many say they have faith in Jesus but few follow His line of thought when their wealth is in question.

Would God reject our rich Church?
Is our Church imperfect because of it?s wealth?
Will God reject the rich man?

Your thoughts?

Regards
DL
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xexon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 01:41 am
@Greatest I am cv,
It's not wrong to have wealth. It's only wrong to be attached to it to a point where it endangers one's spiritual progress.

And BTW, "camel" through the eye of a needle is a translation error from centuries ago.

The correct word is rope.


x
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 06:01 am
@xexon,
xexon;65641 wrote:
It's not wrong to have wealth. It's only wrong to be attached to it to a point where it endangers one's spiritual progress.

And BTW, "camel" through the eye of a needle is a translation error from centuries ago.

The correct word is rope.


x


How many dollars does one have to sit on before they endanger one's spirituality?

No more than 1 million?
No more than 5 million?
No more than 50 million?

Regards
DL
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 01:16 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
It isn't the amount of dollars, it's the amount of attachment. You attach value to things of this world irregardless of what the price tag says.

The parable of the widow and her two cents is an excellent example. It is letting go of the very last that you "own" that sets you free in this life.

Now you can get off the treadmill and just watch others.



x
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jun, 2009 09:20 pm
@xexon,
xexon;65658 wrote:
It isn't the amount of dollars, it's the amount of attachment. You attach value to things of this world irregardless of what the price tag says.

The parable of the widow and her two cents is an excellent example. It is letting go of the very last that you "own" that sets you free in this life.

Now you can get off the treadmill and just watch others.



x


So a multi trillionaire with no attachment to his money but just sits on it while people starve around him and he is not doing anything immoral.

Give your head a shake.

Regards
DL
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2009 05:17 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Just because you have money doesn't mean you can change the world with it.

There will always be other people with money who want to keep it just the way it is.

You have to change public opinion about how the world is run first, then follow up with action, putting your money where your mouth is.

Otherwise you feed a person for a day instead of teaching them to farm and feed themselves.

There's plenty of food in the world. Starvation is a result of a lack of compassion, not a lack of food.

x
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2009 08:32 am
@xexon,
xexon;65667 wrote:
Just because you have money doesn't mean you can change the world with it.

There will always be other people with money who want to keep it just the way it is.

You have to change public opinion about how the world is run first, then follow up with action, putting your money where your mouth is.

Otherwise you feed a person for a day instead of teaching them to farm and feed themselves.

There's plenty of food in the world. Starvation is a result of a lack of compassion, not a lack of food.

x


We are all part of the economy and all effect each other. If all the rich sat on their money, the economic systems of the world would stop functioning.



A good socio economic pyramid will look like a nice triangular pyramid.

If the upper levels, where the rich money is show, are wider than the lower ones, where the poor money is shown, then it is showing a disproportional number of poor money, at the bottom, as opposed to the rich at the top. Any excess at the top levels that exceed the ones below show a disproportional variance between the rich of a nation over the poor of that nation.

If you consider the French revolution, you would note that in that day, their demographic pyramid had lost it's nice triangular shape with the few aristocrats owning much of the wealth and the greatly larger number of serfs with basically nothing.

Their pyramid would have looked like a block with an umbrella over it. Way to wide at the top and way too thin yet high, at the bottom.

There must always be men of wealth at the top and poor at the bottom.
The trick for a healthy economy is to maintain the triangle shape and just keep the money moving.

The rich must get rid of their money to the poor and the poor will spend it to keep it flowing back up the chain to the rich man that must keep giving it away or spending it.

This is a healthy economy. When accumulation begins then the economy lags.

Even in our last recession, did you not notice politicians encouraging us to keep spending?
Did you also note that the banks, rich money, pumped more of it through lending, to the poor?

It is therefore unethical for a rich man to amass great wealth because it causes suffering or poverty further down the demographic pyramid, proportional to what he hoards.

So to answer your question of what is wealth. Wealth is meaningless. It is not a number. Excess wealth is what is important and this is the overhang that exists on a socio economic demographic pyramid.

If I was a demographer with his charts it would be simpler to see but this is the best way I know of explaining it. I hope it is clear.

Regards
DL
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Jun, 2009 11:56 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Humans are basically herd animals. If you master this understanding, you can make them jump through fiery hoops.

Our current system feeds the elite at the expense of the herd itself. In a democracy, there shouldn't be any elite.

Power is hard to let go of if your aspirations in life are still worldly. There has always been a bastardization of government because religion plays such a huge role in it. In this world, wealth is power. When churches become so wealthy, the temptation to use the money to advance a politcal "for Jesus" agenda becomes very tempting.

The result is the decline of spiritual altitude.

The ground comes up quickly for those who tried to get away but still have attractions here. Rubber band effect.

Only a person with no attraction to this world can escape it's gravitational field. You must become a neutral particle, so that positive and negative no longer sway you.


x
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 03:39 am
@xexon,
xexon;65682 wrote:
Humans are basically herd animals. If you master this understanding, you can make them jump through fiery hoops.

Our current system feeds the elite at the expense of the herd itself. In a democracy, there shouldn't be any elite.

Power is hard to let go of if your aspirations in life are still worldly. There has always been a bastardization of government because religion plays such a huge role in it. In this world, wealth is power. When churches become so wealthy, the temptation to use the money to advance a politcal "for Jesus" agenda becomes very tempting.

The result is the decline of spiritual altitude.

The ground comes up quickly for those who tried to get away but still have attractions here. Rubber band effect.

Only a person with no attraction to this world can escape it's gravitational field. You must become a neutral particle, so that positive and negative no longer sway you.


x


The rhetoric of lose yourself to find yourself or visa versa is well worn crap.


Regards
DL
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