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Christians. Why do you respect a God that kills humans and does not denounce slavery?

 
 
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 07:32 am
Christians. Why do you respect a God that kills humans and does not denounce slavery?

The Bible often depicts scenes where God kills humans. The largest numbers was with His genocidal flood where all but 8 of millions are killed including children and babies.

We vilify humans like Hitler who use genocide against nations yet in the case of God using the same tactic, we honor Him that much more for doing the right thing. Rather a double standard.

Further reading of scripture shows that nowhere does God speak against slavery or the acquisition of many wives.

In fact we are told how to handle and chastise slaves and wives and unruly children. The best or worse way, depending on your views is here;

Deut21-18
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

I can see worship of a loving God but the Bible shows a God that is less than loving and in fact it Shows a God that did not create perfect works;

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

But also does not seem to do much of anything right.

He could not come out of Heaven without bringing Satan with Him and could not get Adam and Eve out of the garden in a way that He would approve of.

So Christians, why do you follow an incompetent killer of men who breaks His own law whenever He likes.

We would not follow a human law maker who broke his own laws. Why do you follow a God that does?
For the record, I do not believe that God has ever killed anyone but most Christians argue against me on that point.

You win now explain why you honor a killer.

Regards
DL
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billcompugeek
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:38 am
@Greatest I am cv,
The great flood is a parable that Swedenborg interpreted in his Arcana Coelestia.

The Heavenly Doctrines

In Christian theology, God said what would happen if the Adam and Eve fell, but the first church fell anyway.

After that, a series of steps had to be taken to bring man back to God, including introducing churches successively one after another, until lastly God made a human form Divine, and brought forth the last judgment and a New Church.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:42 am
@billcompugeek,
billcompugeek;53397 wrote:
The great flood is a parable that Swedenborg interpreted in his Arcana Coelestia.

The Heavenly Doctrines

In Christian theology, God said what would happen if the Adam and Eve fell, but the first church fell anyway.

After that, a series of steps had to be taken to bring man back to God, including introducing churches successively one after another, until lastly God made a human form Divine, and brought forth the last judgment and a New Church.


Rather complicated when a snap of His fingers would accomplish whatever He wanted.
Same for Sodom and other places where He killed humans.

Most Christians still believe in the flood.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
billcompugeek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 03:41 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Most people agree that God's hand is in everything, but are then surprised or appalled that God would influence who wins a battle, or who wins other conflicts involving right and wrong. God doesn't sow the conflicts, but God does influence outcomes with His eye looking at everyone's eternal salvation as an end. God thus looks to the "end in view" (every person's salvation) which is different from what man looks at which is cause and effect.

One of the primary things God must preserve is man's free will, and if God stopped all evil and evil influences, free will would be also halted as a consequence, and man would not have the opportunity to reform and regenerate (or to choose the good over the evil and confirm the good).
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 05:42 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;53396 wrote:
Christians. Why do you respect a God that kills humans and does not denounce slavery?

The Bible often depicts scenes where God kills humans. The largest numbers was with His genocidal flood where all but 8 of millions are killed including children and babies.

We vilify humans like Hitler who use genocide against nations yet in the case of God using the same tactic, we honor Him that much more for doing the right thing. Rather a double standard.

Further reading of scripture shows that nowhere does God speak against slavery or the acquisition of many wives.

In fact we are told how to handle and chastise slaves and wives and unruly children. The best or worse way, depending on your views is here;

Deut21-18
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

I can see worship of a loving God but the Bible shows a God that is less than loving and in fact it Shows a God that did not create perfect works;

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

But also does not seem to do much of anything right.

He could not come out of Heaven without bringing Satan with Him and could not get Adam and Eve out of the garden in a way that He would approve of.

So Christians, why do you follow an incompetent killer of men who breaks His own law whenever He likes.

We would not follow a human law maker who broke his own laws. Why do you follow a God that does?
For the record, I do not believe that God has ever killed anyone but most Christians argue against me on that point.

You win now explain why you honor a killer.

Regards
DL


The Bible is an old library. It reflects practices and attitudes of its time. Jesus' teachings serve as the bedrock of the humanism that gradually re-oriented the Bible, in the minds of most Christians. Moreover, Christian humanism is one of the pillars of Western Civilization. The issue is complicated, like everything else big and important in life. Remember, the Catholic Church, during the late Middle Ages, on the eve of the Scientific Revolution, anticipated that science would disprove the Bible, in its literal interpretation, and set out on a long journey to graft its theology onto Platonic reasoning to be able to reconcile Christianity, logically, with science. The movement was called Scholasticism, and produced Thomism(e.g., the works of Thomas Aquinas), the official theology of the Catholic Church. Therefore, Catholic theological reasoning is not strictly founded on or defined by the Bible, the product of Church history and tradition. :headbang:
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 05:44 am
@billcompugeek,
billcompugeek;53446 wrote:
Most people agree that God's hand is in everything, but are then surprised or appalled that God would influence who wins a battle, or who wins other conflicts involving right and wrong. God doesn't sow the conflicts, but God does influence outcomes with His eye looking at everyone's eternal salvation as an end. God thus looks to the "end in view" (every person's salvation) which is different from what man looks at which is cause and effect.

One of the primary things God must preserve is man's free will, and if God stopped all evil and evil influences, free will would be also halted as a consequence, and man would not have the opportunity to reform and regenerate (or to choose the good over the evil and confirm the good).


God is not into PC. God will punish and even kill evil people. :AR15firing::AR15firing::AR15firing::AR15firing:
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:31 am
@billcompugeek,
billcompugeek;53446 wrote:
Most people agree that God's hand is in everything, but are then surprised or appalled that God would influence who wins a battle, or who wins other conflicts involving right and wrong. God doesn't sow the conflicts, but God does influence outcomes with His eye looking at everyone's eternal salvation as an end. God thus looks to the "end in view" (every person's salvation) which is different from what man looks at which is cause and effect.

One of the primary things God must preserve is man's free will, and if God stopped all evil and evil influences, free will would be also halted as a consequence, and man would not have the opportunity to reform and regenerate (or to choose the good over the evil and confirm the good).
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:34 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;53449 wrote:
The Bible is an old library. It reflects practices and attitudes of its time. Jesus' teachings serve as the bedrock of the humanism that gradually re-oriented the Bible, in the minds of most Christians. Moreover, Christian humanism is one of the pillars of Western Civilization. The issue is complicated, like everything else big and important in life. Remember, the Catholic Church, during the late Middle Ages, on the eve of the Scientific Revolution, anticipated that science would disprove the Bible, in its literal interpretation, and set out on a long journey to graft its theology onto Platonic reasoning to be able to reconcile Christianity, logically, with science. The movement was called Scholasticism, and produced Thomism(e.g., the works of Thomas Aquinas), the official theology of the Catholic Church. Therefore, Catholic theological reasoning is not strictly founded on or defined by the Bible, the product of Church history and tradition. :headbang:


True but Christianity is still based on the Bible and allows for fundamentalists to misinterpret scripture.

To bad for christianity. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:36 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;53450 wrote:
God is not into PC. God will punish and even kill evil people. :AR15firing::AR15firing::AR15firing::AR15firing:


Easier for God to adjust people and this would look better than killing humans.

Breaking your own commandments is not a good example of leadership.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
billcompugeek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:42 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;53453 wrote:



Nobody did attribute genocide to God. I said that God doesn't sow conflicts, but He influences things (along the lines of His Divine Providence or end in view for every individuals salvation).

billcompugeek;53446 wrote:
God doesn't sow the conflicts, but God does influence outcomes
0 Replies
 
billcompugeek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:45 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;53453 wrote:


We need a new Bible though to speak to slavery and women and Gays.



Why? If we had a new Bible about how marriage is between one man and one woman, then anyone that that speaks against wouldn't pay attention to that either.

See the book Conjugial Love by Emanuel Swedenborg, Servant of the Lord God Jesus Christ.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:48 am
@billcompugeek,
billcompugeek;53457 wrote:
Why? If we had a new Bible about how marriage is between one man and one woman, then anyone that that speaks against wouldn't pay attention to that either.

See the book Conjugial Love by Emanuel Swedenborg, Servant of the Lord God Jesus Christ.


Love between humans is a plus regardless of sexual pursuasion.
Gays have a right to love like all of us.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
billcompugeek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:49 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;53453 wrote:


Maybe next Pope.

This pope changed the Roman Catholic Church's idea of where little children go when they die, but I was told that that idea was not an "official dogma" or "official doctrine" so that it was allowable to change it by practically anyone.

This pope is not even a minor reformer. He doesn't have the guts to change official dogma and doctrine for the Roman Catholic Church.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 08:56 am
@billcompugeek,
billcompugeek;53459 wrote:
Maybe next Pope.

This pope changed the Roman Catholic Church's idea of where little children go when they die, but I was told that that idea was not an "official dogma" or "official doctrine" so that it was allowable to change it by practically anyone.

This pope is not even a minor reformer. He doesn't have the guts to change official dogma and doctrine for the Roman Catholic Church.


The more we lose the more preasure is brought to bear.

Some day perhaps we will see reform. Let'shope.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Feb, 2008 02:42 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Quote:
Let’s hope the Vatican smartens up before Christianity is totally discredited.


You blame the Vatican for not making a new Bible?

Quote:
This pope is not even a minor reformer. He doesn't have the guts to change official dogma and doctrine for the Roman Catholic Church.


And what do you want changed?

Are you actually Catholic?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 11:36 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;53484 wrote:
You blame the Vatican for not making a new Bible?



And what do you want changed?

Are you actually Catholic?


I am a RC that recognizes that the Bible is deficient in some areas.

All Bibles have merit but all need updates every 1000 years or so don't you think?

Women, Gays and slaves do.

Regards
DL
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 01:50 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;53509 wrote:
I am a RC that recognizes that the Bible is deficient in some areas.

All Bibles have merit but all need updates every 1000 years or so don't you think?

Women, Gays and slaves do.

Regards
DL


I was under the impression the Bible had been updated,..King James Version and the New International version.

Surely if the Bible is inspired by God through men, we need inspired men of God. Do you trust your religous leaders have a conduit to god?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 02:13 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;53566 wrote:
I was under the impression the Bible had been updated,..King James Version and the New International version.

Surely if the Bible is inspired by God through men, we need inspired men of God. Do you trust your religous leaders have a conduit to god?


No.

No one has the authority to stand between God and His souls.

In this regard I believe as the old Gnostics did.

If I lived in those days, I would be excommunicated by the old church because I did not rely on it to be the go between. They were wrong then and would be just as wrong today.

The Christian god can have substance as a philosophy but not as He exists in today's bible. Too bad for Christianity.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
 

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