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Leaning Towards Atheism

 
 
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 09:24 pm
I am not going to say whether or not I am atheist or theist, but I think a fundamental part of our society has changed. Recently I have noticed that people have started to lean more towards atheism than christianity in several settings. I am currently in college, so my main source of experience is in a collegiate setting, but I have noticed that many people have began to equate greater intellect with atheism. It is interesting to watch christians because many of them will just drop their religion at the drop of a hat because they feel like they are doing the "smart" thing. I guess people believing or not believing in something for a stupid reason is not a new development or anything, but I just think it is funny, based on American history, that we have now evolved to this stage. In this case many christians are trying to fit in so they just drop christianity so they can seem like the smart, or dominant, people. FYI I go to a fairly liberal university, I am not sure if conservative universities are like this at all.

P.S. I am a psych major, so I this is my area of study.
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Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 09:55 pm
@stealth4933,
stealth4933;173238 wrote:
I am not going to say whether or not I am atheist or theist, but I think a fundamental part of our society has changed. Recently I have noticed that people have started to lean more towards atheism than christianity in several settings. I am currently in college, so my main source of experience is in a collegiate setting, but I have noticed that many people have began to equate greater intellect with atheism. It is interesting to watch christians because many of them will just drop their religion at the drop of a hat because they feel like they are doing the "smart" thing. I guess people believing or not believing in something for a stupid reason is not a new development or anything, but I just think it is funny, based on American history, that we have now evolved to this stage. In this case many christians are trying to fit in so they just drop christianity so they can seem like the smart, or dominant, people. FYI I go to a fairly liberal university, I am not sure if conservative universities are like this at all.

P.S. I am a psych major, so I this is my area of study.


The way you word the thread title and some key ways you wrote your statement, I would bet you are a theist.

Despite my position on Christianity I don't think you should abandon anything without a through reason. I think if you are truly intelligent you'll weight the issue rather than for popularity or acceptance.
stealth4933
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 10:01 pm
@Krumple,
Well, once again, I am not going to elaborate on whether or not I am a theist or not. A main point of most atheists arguments is that christians should think through their religion, which most christians do not do. I guess what I am trying to say is that people should not be a theist or atheist without first thinking it throug, which could be said about a lot of things.
0 Replies
 
jack phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 10:25 pm
@stealth4933,
People who leave religion because everyone else is doing it are in the same boat as those who join a religion because everyone else is doing it.

If you are on a philosophy forum, I hope it means you think; if I am correct in that assumption, then I hardly see a need to bring up the story where people jump off a bridge before you are asked.

I mean, with so many people jumping, you would think ice creme was at the bottom.

Maybe a more suitable parable would have a sinking ship... Are you captain or shark-bait? Theists and atheists die.
0 Replies
 
Leonard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 11:37 pm
@stealth4933,
As with Christians, there are going to be atheists who 'believe in it because that's what my religion/ideology tells me to believe'. There could be a correlation between intellect and atheism, though that doesn't mean atheism implies intelligence.

This article may be helpful: Times Higher Education - High IQ turns academics into atheists
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 11:51 pm
@stealth4933,
Here's my two cents. Atheism and true religion are closer than one might expect. Much of religious belief is idolatry in my book. If God is nothing but a proposition, then what's all the fuss about?
Apophatic theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 04:21 am
@Reconstructo,
For those who loose their faith with little resistance, really cant be classified as religious in the first place. O ye of little faith, determines their transformation. It took me many years of contemplation and serious questioning. You loose or maintain faith by questioning the beliefs and debating with each other.
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 04:27 am
@stealth4933,
stealth4933;173238 wrote:
I am not going to say whether or not I am atheist or theist, but I think a fundamental part of our society has changed. Recently I have noticed that people have started to lean more towards atheism than christianity in several settings. I am currently in college, so my main source of experience is in a collegiate setting, but I have noticed that many people have began to equate greater intellect with atheism. It is interesting to watch christians because many of them will just drop their religion at the drop of a hat because they feel like they are doing the "smart" thing. I guess people believing or not believing in something for a stupid reason is not a new development or anything, but I just think it is funny, based on American history, that we have now evolved to this stage. In this case many christians are trying to fit in so they just drop christianity so they can seem like the smart, or dominant, people. FYI I go to a fairly liberal university, I am not sure if conservative universities are like this at all.

P.S. I am a psych major, so I this is my area of study.



Well....like my mother say, if people jump of a bridge, are you going to do it as well? I hope not.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 04:29 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;173283 wrote:
Here's my two cents. Atheism and true religion are closer than one might expect. Much of religious belief is idolatry in my book. If God is nothing but a proposition, then what's all the fuss about?
Apophatic theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A reasonable explanation of an agnostic. The description, denies god. When you examine gods description, does it fail on logical reasoning? It does not deny his existence but questions the god described. All faith must bare scrutiny of the god believed in.
0 Replies
 
Emil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:15 am
@stealth4933,
stealth4933;173238 wrote:
I am not going to say whether or not I am atheist or theist, but I think a fundamental part of our society has changed. Recently I have noticed that people have started to lean more towards atheism than christianity in several settings. I am currently in college, so my main source of experience is in a collegiate setting, but I have noticed that many people have began to equate greater intellect with atheism. It is interesting to watch christians because many of them will just drop their religion at the drop of a hat because they feel like they are doing the "smart" thing. I guess people believing or not believing in something for a stupid reason is not a new development or anything, but I just think it is funny, based on American history, that we have now evolved to this stage. In this case many christians are trying to fit in so they just drop christianity so they can seem like the smart, or dominant, people. FYI I go to a fairly liberal university, I am not sure if conservative universities are like this at all.

P.S. I am a psych major, so I this is my area of study.



"correlate" is a better word.

Here is some data.

Intelligence & Religion

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 02:17 PM ----------

Leonard;173277 wrote:
As with Christians, there are going to be atheists who 'believe in it because that's what my religion/ideology tells me to believe'. There could be a correlation between intellect and atheism, though that doesn't mean atheism implies intelligence.

This article may be helpful: Times Higher Education - High IQ turns academics into atheists


What does it even mean to say that atheism implies intelligence? :surrender:
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 06:49 am
@stealth4933,
Hi Stealth,

Its long been a widespread steriotype that with higher intellect comes less religiosity. I've seen studies and statistics, but I'm not sure I buy it. What's more, I'm not sure it matters - it does suggest a rather harsh condemnation of the religious mind and for this reason alone; it ought to be de-emphasized or dispelled (coming from an ethical/respect for the individual-standpoint).

stealth4933;173238 wrote:
It is interesting to watch christians because many of them will just drop their religion at the drop of a hat because they feel like they are doing the "smart" thing.


Amazing what some folks will do on account of assumed perceptions.

stealth4933;173238 wrote:
I guess people believing or not believing in something for a stupid reason is not a new development or anything...


You're right, it's nothing new. I suspect; however, that those who do turn at the flip of a hat didn't much believe in the first place. As I've said many times before, I fear most aren't really conscious of what they truly do or don't believe, theologically.

Thanks
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 07:07 am
@Khethil,
Was it Hermes who said of his pagan gods? the gods and our souls will be mocked. The gods and heaven will be not worthy and no one will look up to the stars. The only remains of our belief will be in the stones we leave behind. Man may denounce the gods but he can not deny the possibility they may return. Christians and Christianity are encountering the same scrutiny all gods eventually succumb to, logic.
0 Replies
 
Night Ripper
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 07:35 am
@stealth4933,
stealth4933;173238 wrote:
In this case many christians are trying to fit in so they just drop christianity so they can seem like the smart, or dominant, people.


Why can't it be because they've examined the evidence and found that there is no reason to believe in Christianity or God?
0 Replies
 
stealth4933
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 09:43 am
@Emil,
Emil;173335 wrote:
"correlate" is a better word.

Here is some data.

Intelligence & Religion

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 02:17 PM ----------



What does it even mean to say that atheism implies intelligence? :surrender:


Well the point of this post was not to say that atheists are necessarily more intelligent, but to show a trend that I have noticed. There are actually starting to be people switching to atheism based on the fact that they want to fit in and seem "intelligent." This is an interesting development because it shows that atheismm has spread to the point that people are joining it without thinking, not that everyone who becomes atheist has not thought about it. Its funny because religions in the world all have a pattern:
1. Someone writes or "finds" a scripture or belief system
2. Starts to preach it
3. People start to truly believe and follow what the people are preaching
4. the religion gets so big that people start to convert to it not because they believe in it, but because it will give them friends and something to talk about in their spare time, i. e. how they saw the light(even though they really have not.) The religion has to get fairly big for this step to happen.
5. The religion gets so big that there is a backlash and people start to convert away from it
Im am not saying that there are not differences in this pattern between religions, but this is the main, general one.
Christianity is a good example of this pattern. According to the bible and later history we have the pattern of the growth of christianity is similar to this.
Well, it looks like atheism is now also falling into this pattern, which I find as an interesting development.

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 10:46 AM ----------

Night Ripper;173353 wrote:
Why can't it be because they've examined the evidence and found that there is no reason to believe in Christianity or God?

I am not saying that every person who becomes atheist has not thought about it. I know for a fact that most of them have, I just also know many who converted to atheism on a fly without thinking about it.
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 09:13 pm
Leaning Towards Atheism is a Natural progression towards the Natural belief in our very Humanity

inotherwords

Humanity becomes , as it should be , our focal point

it is the growth of Humanity , the maturity of Humanity , the intelligence of Humanity , which leads to the progress of thought or thinking along these lines
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 06:18 am
@north,
north;174054 wrote:
Leaning Towards Atheism is a Natural progression towards the Natural belief in our very Humanity

inotherwords

Humanity becomes , as it should be , our focal point

it is the growth of Humanity , the maturity of Humanity , the intelligence of Humanity , which leads to the progress of thought or thinking along these lines
The act of being a humanitarian does not mean we have to reject possibilities. That's just as dogmatic as faith without reason.
0 Replies
 
Emil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 09:15 am
@stealth4933,
stealth4933;173395 wrote:
Well the point of this post was not to say that atheists are necessarily more intelligent, but to show a trend that I have noticed. There are actually starting to be people switching to atheism based on the fact that they want to fit in and seem "intelligent." This is an interesting development because it shows that atheismm has spread to the point that people are joining it without thinking, not that everyone who becomes atheist has not thought about it. Its funny because religions in the world all have a pattern:
1. Someone writes or "finds" a scripture or belief system
2. Starts to preach it
3. People start to truly believe and follow what the people are preaching
4. the religion gets so big that people start to convert to it not because they believe in it, but because it will give them friends and something to talk about in their spare time, i. e. how they saw the light(even though they really have not.) The religion has to get fairly big for this step to happen.
5. The religion gets so big that there is a backlash and people start to convert away from it
Im am not saying that there are not differences in this pattern between religions, but this is the main, general one.
Christianity is a good example of this pattern. According to the bible and later history we have the pattern of the growth of christianity is similar to this.
Well, it looks like atheism is now also falling into this pattern, which I find as an interesting development.

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 10:46 AM ----------


I am not saying that every person who becomes atheist has not thought about it. I know for a fact that most of them have, I just also know many who converted to atheism on a fly without thinking about it.


So, in general what you're saying is that people are unreasonable and will adopt a belief when they think that the more intelligent people have the belief too. Well, duh. But sure it happens with atheism and theism too, and pretty much anything else you can think of where people can get the idea that people who believe P are smarter than people who don't, or even that people who believe P are seen as smarter by other people than people who don't.

Isn't it true?
0 Replies
 
jack phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 09:23 am
@stealth4933,
On this thread, correlation is being equivocated with causation. People are looking at statistics and trying to say something about them. I am sure there are whole textbooks dedicated to making it clear that these two are not even remotely similar (and maybe a case could even be made against causality).

Regardless, I'll cite some history: Kepler was an astrologer, Newton was an alchemist and into black magic, even Einstein was asked to be the President of Israel. So, I am not sure what higher intelligence people are recognizing...

Oh, and Jesus was raised a Jew.
Jebediah
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 09:41 am
@stealth4933,
Many people don't really question the beliefs they were raised with until they go to college. These people could be becoming atheists as a fad, just because it's popular and they want to look smart. Or the sheer number of intelligent atheists could have forced them to question their religious beliefs, and when they did they found them wanting.
0 Replies
 
Emil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2010 12:43 pm
@jack phil,
jack;174227 wrote:
On this thread, correlation is being equivocated with causation. People are looking at statistics and trying to say something about them. I am sure there are whole textbooks dedicated to making it clear that these two are not even remotely similar (and maybe a case could even be made against causality).

Regardless, I'll cite some history: Kepler was an astrologer, Newton was an alchemist and into black magic, even Einstein was asked to be the President of Israel. So, I am not sure what higher intelligence people are recognizing...

Oh, and Jesus was raised a Jew.


Awaiting evidence for the bold part.

And you are quite wrong about them not being similar. In fact, in some contexts in biology causation is defined as correlation.
0 Replies
 
 

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