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Is there something left after desire?

 
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 01:02 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;168469 wrote:
2) psycologists are usually wise in their field, just because some psycologists rely on outdated Freudian teachings, shouldn't make you judge them all over 1 phallacy.

Most psycollogy are siencetific, contrary to your reasoning.

Well, much of psychology depends upon talk, upon the interpretation of language, so this isn't like chemistry, I wouldn't think. There were certain psychologists who denied the existence or the use of consciousness. B. F. Skinner, who wrote a strange book (which is no doubt exciting) called Beyond Freedom and Dignity. It's a twisted title, isn't it? He had watermelons for balls. Or not.

Freud was a genius. Of course some of his thoughts are dated. Whose don't? It's not about a fallacy. It's about the method in general, which is interpretative and metaphorical. The jargon may be modern, but the concepts are largely the same old concepts.

---------- Post added 05-27-2010 at 02:04 AM ----------

HexHammer;168469 wrote:

What I am with my western knowledge, is the understanding of economy, that we can deliver pepole from starving to death, that we can avoid drout with irrigation, that we can produce electricity and power life giving machines. That we have medical knowledge and surgical procedures that can save lifes, instead of useing shamanistic supersticion to do weird things to sick people.

I am with you on all of this, except that the Shamans may work on the psyche which in some cases may be the cause of the problem. In any case, having someone try to help you is comforting.

I have nothing against the responsible use of technology. I especially love computers. And I would be screwed without my dentist. Screwed.

---------- Post added 05-27-2010 at 02:08 AM ----------

HexHammer;168469 wrote:

Back in the 80'ies a Russian president, who was a strong beliver in communism, would gasp and be astounded by entering an American supermarket ..HOW COULD THEY HAVE SUCH ABUNDANDCY? How could they have so much food? How could they have such excess of luxuary goods? It wasn't just this 1 random supermarket, no, it was ALL of them!

That was when he realized that communism wasn't all that perfect.

I agree with this, too. Capitalism is the most productive social organization the world has seen, I think. And this is related also to technology. All of this has been great. But we've got to be careful not to sink spaceship Earth, or let this technology steal our bodies and minds. What about traffic jams? The point of cars is motion. But the cities crowd and before long you have people sitting in their 5000 pound cars, hardly moving, polluting the air. Brilliant! Our tools can sometimes smack us in the face w/o the proper social organization. And our abstract money can encourage us to forget what really holds society together, which is a decency between human beings. Do you know about the "tragedy of the commons" concept?Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's the dark side of too much individualism, either between citizens or nations. Smile
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
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Reply Tue 26 Jul, 2011 07:43 pm
@serunato,
That's right, Serunato. Desire is part of motivation. There is no unmotivated action (not to speak of reflex and instinct). When we're hungry we desire to eat and when sleepy we desire to sleep. But attachments, and cravings are something else. They are more than passing expressions of my body and personality; they are obsessive fixations at the level of ideation that "clouds" the mind.
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nirvana way
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2011 09:20 pm
@Deckard,
to me, desiring is suffering, because budhha taught us nothing thing lasts forever, we were all born empty handed and only nothing will follow us after death accept for our deeds that we have done which will lead us to reborn to a life in different abodes which we have to pay for our karmas (higher abodes include: heavens, human beings, titans; and lower abodes: hells, hungry ghosts, and animal kingdom). Those karmas are sins that we have done with a selfish view: 'i' 'mine' 'myself''which will benefit us in certain ways (or greed). Budhha decide to teach the way of nirvana not to benefit himself but to others since he is already enlightened and completely deleted the ten feters ( believe in an individual self, doubt or uncertain about the dharma, attachment to wrong doings,sensual desire and hatred, craving for existence, craving for non existence, pride in self, restlessness or distraction, and ignorance.), and the ten perfections (Generosity (dana), morality, renunciation, wisdom, effort, patience, truthfulness, resolution-determination, loving kindness, equanimity). In other words when you have deleted the 'I' 'mine' 'myself', anything you do will not have the selfish self which was driving you in the circle of samsara but will be full of compassion and wisdom like the budhhas and bodhisattvas, and you will attain enlightenment or nirvana.
JLNobody
 
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Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 01:52 pm
@nirvana way,
Nirvana, you cite good Buddhist doctrine. I do hope, however, that you see past the metaphors, titans, lower abodes, hells, hungry ghosts, etc.). It is my view that what we really need to do is not simply to "believe doctrine" ( as is the case with all "religions") but to actualize, by means of meditation and lifestyle, our true nature--which I'm sure you have done or will do.
0 Replies
 
void123
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 May, 2014 06:02 am
@Deckard,
other peoples desire and your compassion for them
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Dec, 2014 04:55 pm
I agree that the elimination of desire is not the central means by which Buddhists pursue enligtenment. It is more the cultivation of compassion. That is promoted by insight into the nature of "craving", i.e., the identification with desires such as they strenghten the delusion of a craving self separate from all that is non-self.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:39 am
Not all "desires" are created equal, seems. There's probably some translation difficulties between Pali and English. Dhamma-chanda, for example, is translated as "desire as part of the path." Desire as defilement is either lobha, kamacchanda or raga (or all three).

To abandon desire is not to become unmotivated to do anything. As a matter of fact, it doesn't much alter one's day-t0-day behavior, except mentally. Meditations on goodwill and compassion can help guide one's behavior in - in Buddhist terms - wholesome ways. If you find yourself just sitting there all but lifelessly, you're doing it wrong. Re-examine the dhamma and work out both the explicit and implicit messages.

As always, I recommend the Pali suttas, as they are regarded by Buddhist scholars as the best available record of what the historical person, Siddhartha Gautama, said, did and taught (not saying they're perfect, though).

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.126.than.html

Quote:
...any brahmans or contemplatives endowed with right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, & right concentration: If they follow the holy life even when having made a wish [for results], they are capable of obtaining results. If they follow the holy life even when having made no wish, they are capable of obtaining results. If they follow the holy life even when both having made a wish and having made no wish, they are capable of obtaining results. If they follow the holy life even when neither having made a wish nor having made no wish, they are capable of obtaining results. Why is that? Because it is an appropriate way of obtaining results.
hawkeye10
 
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Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:43 am
answer: following bliss without attachment.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
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Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:49 am
@FBM,
Quote:
To abandon desire is not to become unmotivated to do anything.
right, because being motivated to live life need not (and I say is best if not) have anything to do with desire for particular things. Desire, and feeling of defeat when you dont get what you were after, distract from enjoyment of life. when you no longer live by desire you dont stay in bed all day, you cant wait to get out of bed to see what the day brings.
0 Replies
 
 

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