What is an athiest?

I think it is impossible to respond to this. You have such a blinkered view of the matter, it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you about it. I should have known better than to try. Will remember this next time.

I think the idea that understanding the way in which God made heaven and earth is a simple matter, is not really true. It comes from misunderstanding the nature of sciptural accounts. Of course, there are some who just swallow it literally - the young-earth creationists and people like that. But there are many more who understand that the scriptural accounts are neither literal accounts, nor failed scientific hypotheses. There are many 'creation stories' in world religious literature and while I don't think any of them are literally true, it is nevertheless not impossible that they contain intuitive insights or even actual 'revelations'.

For example, Thomas Aquinas had a very nuanced view of the matter. An essay on why Catholicism doesn't support Intelligent Design says that

Thomas Aquinas vs the Intelligent Designers

Quote:

Now at this point in time, both scientific cosmology and Darwinian theory come to a definite halt at a certain point when it comes to understanding the origins of life and the Universe. Cosmology can go right back to within mili-seconds of the start of the big bang, but no further. Darwinian theory cannot account for the origin of life. It can only account for the way species change, once life exists. In both cases, science can only hope that one day, it will understand the last steps in these sequences. But that too is a kind of faith. So dogmatic rejection of religion is very similar to dogmatic acceptance of it, in my view.

thats not the point of being athiest though

there is a life energy and non-life energy both are different

non-life , the Universe , the quasars , galaxies , suns , planets and moons

which produce the possibility on which life can take hold , given the enviroment

life NEEDS a certain enviroment in which to take hold a flurish

life CANNOT manifest just anywhere

so as an athiest I understand just that , that god cannot put life just anywhere god chooses

see my point ?

Of course the dreadful things you talk about have happened. I won't deny it for a second. But the Judeo-Christian ethos, in the broader sense, has also been responsible for the development of the idea of the person, human rights, hospitals, universities, and even science itself, along with much else that is distinctive and great about the western world. Most science up until the last century was conducted within Christian institutions. Even today religious institutions run thousands of hospitals and charities all over the world. Will you deny these have any value 'because they are religious'?

And it is NOT easy to be a religious believer. It is not just a matter of swallowing some ancient myth and saying 'that is the truth'. You have to be highly self-critical and live according to very high ethical standards if it is to mean anything. The fact that many exponents of it who fail to do this every day does not make it any less true.

Anyway life it too short to argue about this. There is a biblical christian on the forum who is on my banned list, not because I have any bad feelings towards him/her, but because I know exactly what the response will be when it comes to any question about religion. It's deja vu all over again.

a wise man once said, "never judge a philosophy by its abuse."

If we throw out everything which has been abused we won't be left with anything.

It's hard for me to see why people like to use examples of the abuse of a philosophy as a reason why said philosophy should be abolished. And attempts to do so are clearly missing the underlying concepts of said philosophy

Of course the dreadful things you talk about have happened. I won't deny it for a second. But the Judeo-Christian ethos, in the broader sense, has also been responsible for the development of the idea of the person, human rights, hospitals, universities, and even science itself, along with much else that is distinctive and great about the western world. Most science up until the last century was conducted within Christian institutions. Even today religious institutions run thousands of hospitals and charities all over the world. Will you deny these have any value 'because they are religious'?

And it is NOT easy to be a religious believer. It is not just a matter of swallowing some ancient myth and saying 'that is the truth'. You have to be highly self-critical and live according to very high ethical standards if it is to mean anything. The fact that many exponents of it who fail to do this every day does not make it any less true.

Anyway life it too short to argue about this. There is a biblical christian on the forum who is on my banned list, not because I have any bad feelings towards him/her, but because I know exactly what the response will be when it comes to any question about religion. It's deja vu all over again.

Yeah but what do you do with a person who is abusive? Do you just ignore them and let them do their thing? Or do you call them on it? Do you try to prevent them from abusing any more?

I do not want to abolish religion. I want religion to keep itself to itself as it should be. It is funny because even Christians ignore that Jesus even said that you should not pray in public. He said you should hide yourself before you pray. Yet why are they so insistent in public prayer? Because it is that they don't care about what the teachings are, they only want to promote their dogma, their agenda, their power and control. It isn't about the teachings.

I do really understand where you're coming from but I think there is a misunderstanding involved. I don't want to silence anyone but one has to pick one's battles, so to speak.

I can't say right off hand because I'm about to go to bed but I think Jesus' intent behind saying that was to denounce the Pharisees(or perhaps others) who were praying in such a way as to draw attention to themselves as if it was a show vs. a thing between God and the person.
I would have to look this particular story up to be certain but I think I may be correct.

"Because it is that they don't care about what the teachings are, they only want to promote their dogma, their agenda, their power and control. It isn't about the teachings."

Really? Sure, you can say this about some believers but to try and insinuate that this is somehow all or even the majority, would be, I think, just flat out wrong.

First the baby would have to have the concept of god to be agnostic. A baby does not have a concept of god so it can not be agnostic.

---------- Post added 03-30-2010 at 07:58 PM ----------



Wrong a again Alan. You just keep perpetuating a lie to make yourself feel better.



Alan, don't you think god snapping his fingers and saying presto magico maketh the universe from nothing is not the same thing? You are completely ignoring the fact that if a god were to have created the universe, what did it make it from? This is how silly you are and how ignorant you are of your own argument. Tell me, if a god made the unvierse, what did that god use? Nothing?

Keep being ignorant Alan, at least you are being consistent.

It is you that does not get it , all the matter, energy, forces and space time fabric are part and parcil of the god-being itself. He did not have to find stuff from elsewhere to create the universe he created out of his own fundamental resources if you like.

Fundamental resources? Just keep making stuff up right Alan? What are the fundamental resources anyways? So there is god and then there is some fundamental resources? Thank you for the laugh.

IMO

An A-Theist is not oposed to God(s), but Trusts Humanity to Rule Her Reaal

Some Humanists still pray. So do I.

Pepijn Sweep
Magister :bigsmile:X

an athiest is opposed to god(s) period

and being an athiest does not devoid one of being a Good Human