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"Philosophy in Metallica" or "Metal Up Your Mind!"

 
 
Reply Wed 3 Jun, 2009 08:54 pm
Not everyone likes metal (especially thrash metal). That's understandable, since metal isn't for everyone. Yet, the hallmark of metal is that it refuses to die. Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, Kreator, et al. started making records in the 80's. Guess what? They're still around, they're still selling records, and they're still touching the hearts, minds, and souls of their fans...both the ones they had in the 80's, and the newer fans (like myself) that they've gained more recently.

YouTube - Megadeth - Back in the Day song

Isn't that something? I am 20 years old. I was born in 1988, the year that ...And Justice For All (Metallica) was released. In fact, I was born within like a month of its release. Kill Em All (Metallica) was released in 1983...about 5 years before I was born. Yet, I listen to them now, and so do many, many people my own age. How many artists can say that about their fans? 20, 30, or even more years from now, will Brittany Spears be able to say "I have 20 year olds worldwide listening to 'Oops I Did It Again'"? It's unlikely.

But metal's still around, and Metallica's still producing records. Why does Metal strike such a chord with people in between the ages of 18 and 30? Why does Metallica enflame our hearts and minds so much? Why does it have such staying power? Well, on the one hand, metal is, next to classical music, the supreme musical genre. Metal composition tends to be much more complicated than other music genres. Metallica performed with the San Fransisco symphony, and both Slayer and Metallica songs have been covered by the neo-classical cello group Apocalyptica.

YouTube - Metallica: S & M With The San Fransisco Symphony - No Leaf Clover

Just as importantly, though, are the lyrics. Imagine, my readers, that you are white male in your late teens, early 20s, in either the lower, or the lower middle class. Because of your age and inexperience, you are at close to the bottom rung of the social latter. You have little or no job security, and if you have a job, it's likely not well paying. Your economic status is uncertain and poor. You are politically disenfranchized. Because you are white, you have no real culture to which to cling for an example of how to live. You don't yet have a family of your own.

In fine...? You have a world to face, and the way in which you are to face it is completely unclear. To whom or to what do you turn for answers? How are you going to understand the world and your role in it? For this reason, my readers, I have chosen to put this thread in the Existentialism thread. Whereas metal musicians are not existential philosophers, and though the method, arguments, and views I am going to employ and express are not, strictly speaking, existential...well...the real thrust, so to speak, of it all is on the individual, how the individual is to understand himself, and how the individual is to understand the world...and isn't that, at its core, existential? If existentialism is, at its core, the philosophy of the individual in the concrete, then truly, metal is existential, and the mods will not move this thread to the music sub-forum.

As either Kerry King or Tom Araya said (I forget) in a certain interview, to appreciate their music (and metal...minus hair metal, I guess), you have to have problems. If you're from the upper class, are happily married with beautiful children, are entirely shielded from political pressures, are perfectly sane, have very good health...and overall, have no problems whatsoever...well...you won't be able to connect to metal lyrics.

On the other hand, if you feel disenfranchized and lost in an ultimately cosmopolitan world, if you have financial problems, if you have emotional/psychological problems, if you've experienced grief and sorrow in your life, if you've ever experienced feelings of alienation from other people, if you've ever come to develop a real distaste for life...metal lyrics are for you. I know they are for me. I don't know what I'd do without Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Kreator, et al. in my life.

The gods of metal are much like the Greco-Roman cynics...y'know, every day Joes who weren't up to anything high-falutin,' but rather just people trying to figure their lives out. There was a certain Cynic, I forget the name of the Cynic, when he had an interlocutor, dropped trou' and started masturbating. Upon completion of the act, when his interlocutor showed disgust, he said "if only I could ease the pangs in my stomach by rubbing it." Metal's a lot like that. It's in your face. It's brunt. It doesn't put on airs, and neither do metal fans.

Metal isn't pretty. It's outright ugly. Quoting Metallica, the music is "beautifully ugly." Then again, isn't life like that? In any case, Metallica and the other metal bands aren't philosophers. They're artists. Yet, they are excellent artists, and what is art? It's the revelation of the human condition. Where the artists leaves off, the philosopher often begins. Thus, for the rest of the thread, I will attempt to try to draw out a coherent philosophical system from heavy metal, particularly from Metallica:

Epistemology:

The senses are unreliable. The treatment of the senses is basically Cartesian. Metallica's treatment of the relability of the senses can be found in "One" and in "Sanitarium."

YouTube - One Metallica

YouTube - Metallica- Welcome home (Sanitarium) music video

By "knowledge" we understand "cannot be doubted." It seems wierd to say "I know P, but I am able to doubt P."

In "One," we find something that corresponds roughly to Descartes' Dream Argument:

"I can't remember anything;
Can't tell if this is true or dream.
Deep down inside I feel the scream.
This terrible silence stops me.

Now that the war is through with me
I'm waking up; I can not see
That there's not much left of me.
Nothing is real but pain now."

In Johnny Got His Gun, we find a young soldier who enlists into the US army and is sent off to fight in World War I. He is hit by an artillery shell (in the book, he steps on a land mine), and is blown all but to pieces.

"Landmine has taken my sight,
Taken my speech,
Taken my hearing,
Taken my arms,
Taken my legs,
Taken my soul,
Left me with life in hell!"

The young soldier is all but trapped in his own mind. He lives in a world of complete and utter darkness and silence. For him, the world has a population of one: himself.

"Hold my breath as I wish for death.
Oh please God, wake me!
Now the world is gone; Im just one.
Oh God, help me! Hold my breath as I wish for death.
Oh please God help me!"

In this population of one, nothing seems to him save himself. And in this dark, silent prison that is his own mind and body, he drifts in and out of consciousness, and cannot tell dream from reality. A rat climbs onto the table upon which he lies. It's on his chest. Almost his face...he can't move to swat it off, because he has no limbs! He panics...and then...it's not there any more. Was he asleep and dreaming? He drifts back into sleep, and he's having a discussion with an army buddy (who's obviously supposed to be Jesus) about how to tell the difference between dream and reality in this case.

"If you were awake, you would have swatted it away! It must have been a dream."

"Yeah...wait...no...I don't have any arms."

"You don't have any arms, huh...?"

Eventually, he realizes that he has positively no way of telling whether he was asleep or awake, and whether or not it was a dream. Thus, here is the first argument against the senses, basically Descartes' Dream Argument:

1. Knowledge subsists in certainty.
2. The data of sense perception is conveyed to us by the senses.
3. Were I asleep and dreaming, the data of sense perception would not correspond to an actual state of affairs, but rather the dream.
4. Were I asleep, I would be unable to know that I am asleep, but rather would think that I am awake.
5. I cannot therefore be certain that I am awake and not asleep and dreaming.
6. I therefore cannot be certain that the data of sense perception corresponds to the actual state of affairs.
7. Therefore, the senses do not convey knowledge to me. The data of sense perception is uncertain.

"Sanitarium" hints at the argument Descartes gives about insanity.

In "Sanitarium," the entire song is about insanity.

"Sleep my friend and you will see
That dream is my reality.
They keep me locked up in this cage.
Can't they see it's why my brain says rage?"

It is often the case that the insane think that they are sane. We get a taste of this in Plautus' Menaechmi. When Epidamnesian Menaechmus is apprehended by his wife, father-in-law, and his father's-in-law servants (because they think that Menaechmus has gone crazy), he thinks that all of them are crazy, and he is the only sane man around. Of course, none of them are crazy. His twin, Syracusian Menaechmus, had acted insane in order to scare them all away, and Epidamnesian Menaechmus has come into the wrong place at the wrong time. Yet, is it not true that often, the insane think that their delusions are real, and they are the only sane people in an island of people who don't "get it"? Here is the argument, then:

1. The data of sense perception is conveyed to me by the senses.
2. Were I insane and having delusions, the data of sense perception would not correspond to the actual state of affairs.
3. Were I insane and having delusions, I very well might think that I am sane and that I am not, in fact, having delusions.
4. I therefore cannot know that I am not insane and having delusions.
5. I cannot therefore know that the data of sense perception conveyed to me by the senses corresponds to an actual state of affairs. They might be delusions.
6. Therefore, the senses do not convey knowledge to me. The data of sense perception is uncertain.

Mind/Body Problem:

This is most evidently addressed in "One," and the position is clearly one of dualism.

This is clearly suggested in the following lyrics:

"Darkness imprisoning me,
All that I see,
Absolute horror,
I cannot live.
I cannot die.
Trapped in myself,
Body my holding cell."

Here is the argument, then:

1. The object of the senses are corporeal objects.
2. In the "One" scenario, Johnny loses all senses except that of touch.
3. Even though Johnny almost entirely loses the data of sense experience, Johnny is still aware of his own existence.
4. Therefore, the faculty whereby he understands that he exists is something other than the senses, and he is something other a corporeal thing.

God:

The songs which most obviously deal with God are "One" and "The God that Failed."

YouTube - Metallica - The God That Failed (Studio Version) + Lyrics

God's existence is treated existentially in "One." The relevent lyrics are these:

"Hold my breath as I wish for death.
Oh please God, wake me!
Now the world is gone; Im just one.
Oh God, help me! Hold my breath as I wish for death.
Oh please God help me!"

Even though Johnny is slmost entirely stripped away of sense perception, even though his entire world has a population of one, even though he is entirely isolated from all of humanity, he nonetheless remains a social creature. Our inherint desire for social interaction even when none is possible hints at the existence of a Personal God towards which we ought to orient ourselves.

Yet, it is obvious that those religious systems which promise that this God will be some sort of "Cosmic Sugar Daddy," that is, that He will heal us of all our sicknesses whenever we ask Him to, that He will give us money, and all sorts of other goodies...it is obvious that whenever these religious systems make these sorts of empirical claims that God will prevent or end our suffering, they are wrong.

If you believe (as do Christian Scientists and others) in that kind of a God, then you believe in a "God that failed."

"I see faith in your eyes.
Never you hear the discouraging lies.
I hear faith in your cries.
Broken is the promise, betrayal;
the healing hand held back by deepened nail.
Follow the God that failed!"

In fine, if God did not prevent His own suffering on the Cross, what makes anyone think that God will prevent ours?

Death:

Others may disagree with me here, but I think that Metallica's best treatment of death is in Death Magnetic. Don't get me wrong. In Metallica's other works, there's plenty of stuff about dying. Only Death Magnetic really embraces death full on, though. The most relevent songs, I think, are That Was Just Your Life, End of the Line, and My Apocalypse.

YouTube - Metallica - That Was Just Your Life (Live Oct 21, 2008)

YouTube - Metallica The End of the Line at the BBC

YouTube - Metallica - My Apocalypse

Metallica's treatment of death is almost Heideggerian. Death individuates the individual from others in one of the greatest senses possible: nobody can face my death for me. Every man faces death alone. In this way, death is unique to every individual. For this reason, the words of "My Apocalypse" are so vivid and touching for us. Death really is an apocalypse for each one of us:

"So we cross that line
Into the crypt; total eclypse.
Suffer unto my apocalypse"

It is precisely this individuation, then, that provides the ground for the metal view of life. Since death is the individuating principle for individual men, it is only when we come to grips with our own mortality that we are able to live passionately as true subjects (in the existential sense of the word).

We must inwardize into the deepest reaches of our subjectivity that we are going to die. One day, we are all going to reach "The End of the Line."

"Dead hourglass of time
Sand we will not ever find
We gather here today
Say goodbye
Cause you've reached the end of the line"

Death is inevitable. Death is immanent. We don't know when it's coming, but it's coming, and it's coming for each of us. Our lives are going to end.

"Almost like your life.
Almost like your endless fight.
Curse the day is long.
Realize you dont belong.
Disconnect somehow.
Never stop the bleeding now.
Almost like your fight.
And there it went,
Almost like your life.
That was just your life" (That Was Just Your Life).

War:

Metallica's war songs are "No Remose," "Fight Fire with Fire," "Disposable Heroes," "One," "Don't Tread on Me," and, to an extent, "My Apocalypse." For us, though, the most relevent ones are "Fight Fire with Fire," "Disposable Heroes," and "One."

YouTube - Metallica - Fight Fire with Fire

YouTube - Metallica - Disposable Heroes

Every man loves his own life. It is self-apparent, then, that war is a moral evil, since it runs contrary to the value that we must place both on our lives and on the lives of others. In "Fight Fire with Fire" this is best exemplified:

"Do unto others as they've done to you,
But what the heck (censored) is this world coming to?
Blow the universe into nothingness.
Nuclear warfare shall lay us to rest."

It seems contradictory to say that I should lose my life out of love for my life, and just as contradictory to say that I should bring about the deaths of the many in order to achieve the greater good.

Furthermore, war is even more a moral evil insofar as it sacrifices the the individual for the collective. It turns the individual into an object to be used and sacrificed, and not as someone to be appraised at an infinite moral worth. This is clear both in "One" and in "Disposable Heroes."

Young men in war are treated not as individuals, but as tools, as gear, as objects. They become expendable. For this reason, the name "Disposable Heroes" is a fitting title for the song:

"Solider boy, made of clay,
now an empty shell.
twenty one, only son,
but he served us well,
bred to kill, not to care.
do just as we say.
finished here, greetings death;
he's yours to take away!"

And this becomes even more apparent in "One." Politicians can talk about whatever greater good that they want. Politicians can talk about how this or that war is "necessary." Politicians can spew whatever crap out of their mouths that they want. At the end of the day, though, what does it matter to this soldier, who has been left mangled or dead?
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Bonaventurian
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2009 08:18 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Life/Happiness/Ethics:

In Metallica's music, the two best songs for the metal view of life are "No Leaf Clover," "King Nothing," and "The Memory Remains."

YouTube - Metallica - King Nothing Music Video - E Tuning

YouTube - The Memory Remains Music Video by Metallica

The metal conception of life is nihilistic. In the first place, assume for a moment that one were able to attain happiness (in Mill's sense, that is, the satisfaction of desires) in this life. It has already been pointed out in the earlier sections that death, and here I quote myself, "is inevitable. Death is immanent. We don't know when it's coming, but it's coming, and it's coming for each of us. Our lives are going to end." Metallica say in their songs precisely what Heidegger points out in his philosophy (particularly in Being and Time). No matter what we "acheive" in this life, all of our achievements are going to be undone in death. Are you rich, married to a beautiful wife, have wonderful children, a beautiful career, and everything else a man could possibly want? It's all going to be taken away from you when you die. "The Memory Remains" tells us precisely this point:

"Drift away,
Fade away,
Little tin goddess.

Ash to ash,
Dust to dust,
Fade to black."

That doesn't deter you from thinking that we can find lasting happiness in this life? Ok. Do you think that your health, your physical looks, your intellectual wit, your strength, and so forth and so on can make you happy? Well, when you get old, you're going to lose them. Old age brings an end to the physical/mental wellness of one's youth.

Do you pride yourself on your memory and the aforementioned intellectual wit? Old people are senile, and alzheimers is on the rise.

Are you strong? Old people have arthritis and develop all sorts of health problems mostly because they are old. My grandmother can't lift more than (I think) 10 pounds, and my grandfather no more than 40 pounds.

Your health? Old people require more health care than anyone. The fact of the matter is that old age is going to erode away most (if not all) of what you enjoyed in your youth. This too does Metallica remind us in "The Memory Remains."

"Heavy rings on fingers wave,
Another star denies the grave.
See the nowhere crowd, cry the nowhere tears of honor.

Like twisted vines that grow
That hide and swallow mansions whole,
And dim the light of an already faded prima donna."

What, you think that there might still be hope for this life? Well even disregarding death, and even disregarding the woes of old age, you can still lose everything before then, often enough because of circumstances entirely beyond your control. You have an awesome job? You can be either fired or laid off. What, you think you stand on solid ground? So did the Jews, just before the Nazis carted them away. You have a loving wife and good children? Your wife either can leave you or die, and the children either can die or be taken away from you. Nothing you have can't be taken away...not even your physical well being. Just look at Terry Schiavo. Metallica reminds us of this in "King Nothing."

"Then it all crashes down.
And you break your crown,
And you point your finger,
But there's no one around.

Just want one thing,
Just to play the king,
But the castle's crumbled,
And you're left with just a name.

Where's your crown, King Nothing?
Where's your crown?"

Furthermore, you can't even be sure that the things that you're working after are even good for you. They might themselves be just another problem for you...and that's if you ever get to them. All of your efforts could just as well be for naught. Metallica reminds us of this in "No Leaf Clover."

"Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel was just a freight train coming your way."

Lasting happiness is impossible in this life. From this, a certain ethical imperative is evident, which can be most clearly drawn from the song "Mama Said."

YouTube - Metallica - Mama Said Live Acoustic (only James Hetfield)

Don't take other people for granted...they won't be here forever. Never let family, friends, etc. take a back seat to anything. Don't neglect your wife and children, your parents, and your friends in order to devote yourself more fully to your career, your studies, or anything like that. When your mother dies, you'll take it a lot harder than losing a job, and I assure you, you'll regret not spending time with your children a lot more than you will never getting that promotion.

People come first. If you don't get anything else out of this thread, and if you don't get anything else out of anything that I say on this forum (next to 'it is our primary and sole duty to love God'), don't walk away without getting this point. People come first. Cherish your family, your friends, your spouse, your children...even strangers. There's precious little more valuable in the entire world.

I know that this is supposed to be a Metallica thread, but "A Tout Le Monde" from Megadeth's "Youthanasia" really does put it very, very well:

YouTube - Megadeth A Tout Le Monde

"Don't remember where I was.
I realized life was a game.
The more seriously I took things,
The harder the rules became.

I had no idea what it'd cost.
My life passed before my eyes.

I found out how little I accomplished,
All my plans denied.

So as you read this know my friends,
I'd love to stay with you all.

Smile when you think of me.
My body's gone,
That's all.

A tout le monde
A tout mes amis
Je vous aime
Je dois partir

(Translated: To all the world,
To you my friends:
I love you all;
I must leave.)

These are the last words
I'll ever speak,
And they'll set me free.

If my heart was still alive,
I know it would surely break.

And my memories left with you...
There's nothing more to say.

Moving on is a simple thing;
What it leaves behind is hard.

You know the sleeping feel no more pain,
And the living are scarred.

A tout le monde,
A tout mes amis:
Je vous aime;
Je dois partir.

These are the last words
I'll ever speak,
And they'll set me free."

Suicide:

Metallica treats on suicide in "Fade to Black" and "Cyanide," among others (like "The Unforgiven"), but I'll be treating on the matter chiefly with respect to those two.

YouTube - Metallica - Fade to Black live @ Rock am Ring 2008

YouTube - Metallica - Cyanide Live (08/09/08) ~High Quality Audio~

Happy people don't commit suicide. That should be obvious. Aristotle defines the happy life to which (among other qualifications) no other life is to be preferred. Clearly, then, if the life of the suicidal man were one to which no other life would be preferred, then the suicidal man would not wish to end it.

Rather, suicide is the bringing to an end of an unhappy life. I'm not making a normative claim, and I don't think that Metallica are either. I'm not saying that suicide is ok (I don't think it is, and Metallica leaves it open). It can't be disputed, however, that the suicidal man is an unhappy man. If he were happy, he wouldn't be suicidal.

For the suicidal man, death seems more desireable than life. Is it not true, therefore, that for the suicidal man, he is already, to an extent, "dead on the inside"? In a very important way, then, suicide is merely the consummation of an interior state. This is why "Cyanide" is a very good song:

"Suicide! I've already died!
It's just the funeral I've been waiting for.
Cyanide! Living dead inside!
Break this empty shell forevermore."

In fine, suicide is the act of a desperate (in the Latin sense of hopelessness) person. There's no better song about suicide than "Fade to Black," then:

"Life it seems, will fade away,
Drifting further every day,
Getting lost within myself,
Nothing matters no one else.
I have lost the will to live,
Simply nothing more to give.
There is nothing more for me,
Need the end to set me free.

Things not what they used to be,
Missing one inside of me.
Deathly lost, this Can't be real,
Cannot stand this hell I feel.
Emptiness is filling me
To the point of agony.
Growing darkness taking dawn.
I was me, but now he 's gone.

No one but me can save myself, but it's too late.
No, I can't think, think why I should even try.
Yesterday seems as though it never existed.
Death Greets me warm, now I will just say goodbye."

Politics:

The best song for Metallica's view of politics is "...And Justice for All."

YouTube - Metallica - 08 ...and Justice for all at Rock am Ring 2008

There are political problems because there is a disconnect between the ruling and ruled parties. Leaders are more often than not motivated to action by factors other than what they think is best for the people at large. Rather, they have in mind their own self interest, the interests of special-interest groups...and more often than not, greed...what's lining their own pockets.

"Halls of justice painted green,
Money talking.
Power wolves beset your door,
Hear them stalking.
Soon you'll please their appetite,
They devour.
Hammer of justice crushes you,
Overpower."

More often than not, political power is used as a means of exploiting people. It's used as a means of benefitting a select group of people at the expense of others. More often than not, politics isn't about justice. Politics, when there is this sort of disconnect between ruler and ruled, when the rulers are seeking to line their own pockets, becomes a perversion of justice.

"Justice is lost,
Justice is raped,
Justice is gone.
Pulling your strings,
Justice is done.
Seeking no truth,
Winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real."

Master of Puppets:

I feel like I am obliged to include "Master of Puppets" in this thread, since "Master of Puppets" is all but inseperable from the name "Metallica."

YouTube - Metallica - Master Of Puppets With lyrics

Addictions are bad. Given the metal view of death, and given the metal ethical view (about people as being most important), it should be obvious that addictions are bad, especially drug addiction. Addiction (especially drug addiction) destroys your life, and tears you away from sharing fully in family/social life.
0 Replies
 
Leonard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2009 08:25 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Excellent Thread, I'll continue reading it if you make improvements.
0 Replies
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2009 09:50 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Bonaventurian;66470 wrote:
I am 20 years old. I was born in 1988, the year that ...And Justice For All (Metallica) was released.
I bought that album in 1988 or 1989, my freshman year of high school, and I still listen to it.

But don't overstate this case too much... first of all, metal is a lot older than Metallica. People are still listening to Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, etc.

And Metallica is hardly alone in a claim to longevity. Bob Dylan released his first album in 1962 and he released his 60th album (his 33rd studio album) this year. He's also been nominated for the Nobel Prize for Literature...

And how long have people been listening to Bach? 300 years?

The best performers in any genera are defined by their longevity, but I'm just not sure that Metallica, much as I like them, has the transcendence of artists like Springsteen, U2, Dylan, the Beatles, etc. Metallica's lyrics are fairly dumb, their themes fairly monotonous, and their ideas fairly cliche. There are some exceptions with some poetry and innovation, but I can't give them that much credit as lyricists (though they beat the pants off of Slayer as lyricists).

Fundamentally, what has kept Metallica going is that Hetfield knows how to write a song and Hammett is one of the top two or three metal lead guitarists ever (I can't put him ahead of Randy Rhoads).
0 Replies
 
Bonaventurian
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2009 10:43 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Alright! The thread, so far as I can see currently, is more or less finished! I may add a bit later on about capital punishment, but for all intents and purposes, feel free to post!
0 Replies
 
salima
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 10:00 am
@Bonaventurian,
i love metallica and i still think they are the best, cant help it. i believe i have said before that the lyrics are intensified with the voice, they mean much more when you hear them than just read them, though i still believe they are meaningful in a philosophical sense. you dont have to call it poetry-it's music and it's philosophy.

i do realize they cant keep up the energy and intensity as they get older, and that is essential to their subject matter. it isnt a question of physically aging-it is a case of maturity and the realization that nothing is that serious. if they no longer feel that burning rage they cant create or perform the way they did when they were immersed in the issues. i think they might want to move on in time to some other focus, whatever their later realizations are. the question is, will their fans let them.

nothing else matters, i really love that one too.

in about 300 years we will see who is listening to who. i would rather hear metallica than bach (and i do think bach is good in a mechanical sort of way) and beethoven doesnt do it for me. my mother was a piano teacher and i was raised on classical music-dont care for much of it. dont know what it is about. am i shallow or what?

bona, i love the thread. would you explain to me about the unforgiven? i didnt realize it has anything to do with suicide. i thought it was about the way society, parents and especially school, shatters and squashes the individual to fits its stagnant pattern. i thought it was about individuals losing their ability to think independently and their will to question anyone. to me it is their finest piece.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 10:46 am
@Bonaventurian,
I think you are giving way too much credit to Metallica as lyricists. Something tells me that Hetfield is not that deep of a thinker, and you seem to be ascribing more to him than he is worthy of. Lyrics like "ash to ash, dust to dust, fade to black" are so full of cliches that they are not very interesting nor meaningful.
salima
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:00 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;67134 wrote:
I think you are giving way too much credit to Metallica as lyricists. Something tells me that Hetfield is not that deep of a thinker, and you seem to be ascribing more to him than he is worthy of. Lyrics like "ash to ash, dust to dust, fade to black" are so full of cliches that they are not very interesting nor meaningful.


i think he spits them out rather sarcastically, myself. it is a creative tool, the way i see it. and i like it. i am not so sure i would call him a thinker so much as he is a person who perceives and expresses philosophy. it isnt intellectual in that sense...it goes even deeper than thinking in my opinion. but you have to be able to feel it to understand it and appreciate it.
0 Replies
 
Aurochs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 09:30 am
@Bonaventurian,
In terms of philosophy in metal I immediately think of more underground metal: black and death metal.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 09:46 am
@Bonaventurian,
The revival of this thread is going to give me nightmares. I wonder whatever happened to Bonaventurian.
0 Replies
 
salima
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 10:35 am
@Bonaventurian,
i know...isnt it funny how people come and go on this forum, some really special people, and we will never know what happens to them. bona was one of my favorites. he took a lot of ribbing and i dont think he ever got mean or nasty. i actually copied and saved something he wrote in a blog...

and metallica rules, and they are the kings!!! no contest.
0 Replies
 
 

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