Punk Music

Many communes were disastrous though, and the drug ideal Timothy Leary crowd was a big contributor to the failings. On top of this, very human jelousies, disagreements ect took out many of the communes. That there were successful ones is a merit I suppose.

The promotion of compassion is nothing new, though I still find it agreeable. I think the thing I really don't like is that people need to change their way of thinking for compassion to be a viable method, somthing that is near impossible, rather than their current behavior be refocused into somthing to maximize what they really want(like utilitarianism). The promotion of compassion to maximize human potential is almost a metaphilosophy and a religion(since the ideal is so present in nearly every religion) rather than a method of behavior or a measure to maximize gain for everyone like utilitariansim or marxism.

Yes, many did fail miserably. Many factors, nasty stuff. But you're also right about the successful ones. It's amazing what honest, well-intentioned people can accomplish, even if they are little naive. Tim Leary will have to be another conversation.



Make no mistake about it - cultivating compassion requires serious practice. But if you're into as much peace as humanly possible, that compassion is a necessity. The more compassion, the more peace. It's not something that can be forced, and coercive methods also fail. Power of moral example is a great way to promote compassion, though. Imagine if more of our leaders were honestly good people, and not lying, arrogant, self centered, hateful people.

I can imagine that spiteful, arrogant people would wrest power from the hands of the honest and good as long as it is possible to do so. If it were so that a good man manages to climb upon the fetid tower of power, borrowed and stolen alike, he would not long be king, he would become sick and his doppleganger would inevitably arise from his weakness. Even should he die before this, waiting in the wings shall always be those who thirst for the stolen power of the king. As the First Baron Acton said "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Now, I can hope that the most ruthless route would be lain down before the truest, but can we really believe that can happen? Perhaps one feels that one must, but that doesn't make it so. As long as there would be one who is evil, we cannot all be at our most good. If we were to all volunteer our goods and services and money to the poor, and give all men tough love, compassion and equality, we would have found Eden, but we cannot bring ourselfs to do this. Neither Communism nor any other artificial form of government can force this state, it must come from within, but therin lies the difficulty.

Lama Yeshe gave a lecture in New Zealand, and afterward fielded questions from the audience. One young man kept asking questions about communism and implementing Buddhist compassion. Your words are, essential, the Lama's response to the young man.

Punk climaxed with the Misfits, and died shortly after. The Offspring are ok, though.

:shocked::shocked::shocked:.........not one of you mentioned "The Dead Kennedys" ........blimey & I'm english, Jello Biafra still plodding on nicely too in various projects,it's true punk has evolved into what i refer to as "whinge pop" but the thing is, punk did its job, we became aware because of it, we found out it was ok to dissagree. As for punk being a thing of the past, all that happened was the label fell off it, may i recomend the "Subhumans" ...now "Citizen Fish" (trouble with underground bands.....someone in another country quite often had the same idea for a name & theres another "Subhumans" outfit across the atlantic ...strangely enough a similar sound but not as polite & english :whistling:)....
TTFN

Jello Biafra and the Melvins do what Jello Biafra and the Dead Kennedys did--only better.

What exactly is considered punk music anyway. To me it seems more of an attitude than a musical style. I would say that the Offspring and their "Pretty Fly for a White Guy" does not have the necessary attitude of punk. The Offspring may have been punk once upon a time, but to call them punk today you would also have to include AFI--another band that abandoned the punk attitude long ago.

Punk just grew up thats all, some of it's habits changed as life's lessons took effect, as a movement in general it certainly shook things up a little which was kind of needed, a good track to illustrate would be "age of panic" by Senser.
On the Jello note i much preferred him with D.O.A, seemed to have more "oomph" for want of a better word & with Nomeansno purely for comic value.
Cheers
TTFN

I am a huge fan of punk and punk subculture. For me Crass is a definition of what punk is all about. Not the sex pistols or the clash. "CBS promotes the clash, but it aint for revolution its just for cash"

For me punk is not about spiking hair, dressing a certain way, believing in anarchy or any of that ****. Punk is all about DIY ethics. Do it yourself. Creating a community. Becoming active, and questioning the world around you. Start a band, have a voice, make a record label, and have fun. Meet people, experience things and try your best to be your own person. That is punk.

Punk is still really alive. There are tight knit scenes all over the place that do all kinds of things to help their community. Go to local shows and you will see punk is still alive.

Now there are plenty of **** that gets labeled punk (hot topic: create a false sense of rebelling while buying into a fashion trend and just end up looking like everyone else and no different at all), MTV, blah blah. All those shitty bands.

But local bands are still going and even punk legends are still playing. I saw Millions of Dead Cops and Citizen Fish on tour last year and it was amazing. Punk should be grassroots and DIY.

An amazing punk band that I think were extremely talented musically was the minutemen. The fusion of hardcore punk, funk and jazz with really political lyrics was amazing. Everyone should go listen to them. They are not the typical simple punk sound. There were plenty of punk bands that did not just hit 3 chords and scream.

Other than that I am a huge hardcore punk fan but enjoy some ska, like operation ivy (though I hate Rancid). The Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, Black Flag, the bands out of the Gilman Street, Leftover Crack, Stiff Little Fingers, Bad Brains, Gorilla Biscuits, Descendents, Subhumans, Reagan Youth, GG Allin, Husker Du...etc etc. That is what punk is all about.

Punk has become commercialized and ****, but it is far from dead. The spirit of Punk can be found in small scenes. All the shows I go to it's like a family. Everyone looks out for each other. We are active, we protest, volunteer, inform others, and help out anywhere we can. You can't get caught up in the fashion or MTV or anything like that.

It is interesting to note that there has been a huge soar in Folk Punk recently. Bands like Ghost Mice, This Bike Is A Pipe Bomb, Johnny Hobo and a bunch more have created this new little branch of punk which is awesome.

Anyway punk should stay underground and DIY. The music and the message is important. Punk allows you to experiment musically and gives you an outlet to voice your opinion, uncensored. We don't need major record labels, or MTV to create a music scene.

As I get older maybe some of the ideals of punk will no longer appeal to me or seem realistic, but for now, at this moment in my life, punk speaks to me and is my passion. I do not think its some adolescent thing ( I am 20) that I will simply grow out of. But it happened to the hippies so who knows. I do not want to destroy the state, rebel against authority, create anarchy or any of that cliche punk stuff. I just want to be myself and experience life and that is what punk provides me.

Re:urangutang Billy Idol is not punk but he did come from a punk background, Generation X is definately punk. BI also did an album called cyberpunk which fuses punk with cyborg, (ahead of his time I think). BI wanted to make punk sexy hence the change in style and Malcom McClaren invented the Sex Pistols to make money basically, which he did, shed loads. Sid Vicious couldnt even play the guitar but McClaren used him in the band to create it's image, McClaren knew putting Vicious in would rake the money in. So Sid replaced a guitarist that could actually play simply because he had had the right attitude, (the i dont care attitude), and the right image.

I definitely agree with you minutemen,

A split happened that broke away from the traditional punk style. Although the genre really didn't have an actual basis of it's own since there were soft artsy aspects like Xray specs that most wouldn't consider punk at all, but they were accepted along side their hardcore counterparts. Some even considered Blondie punk but to me deb was much more into the pop entertainer side of the punk even though she was submerged into the punk culture. Same with the Go Gos.

I really didn't have any foundation since I tried to get my hands on anything I could growing up in the 80s. I listened to the dead boys, exploited, misfits, stooges, addicts as well as many of the hardcore bands that minutemen mentioned like, DK, minor threat, black flag, bad brains, subhumans, crass and I can't leave out the decendents.

Although many will say punk is dead, it's not, it still continues to do it's thing just doesn't jump to the band bus like all the pop versions of masguara wearing eyeliner power pop wanna be punks. That's right green day is not punk, they are power pop.

I can give you a few examples of some pretty decent punk bands that are still doing it right. The Casualties and Time Again with some cred going out to the Distillers although they broke up after suffering to their need to become bigger than they were suppose to. Brody got greedy but she's still hot with liberty spikes. Which reminds me of the Devotchkas, if you like females who can tear up a stage all the same.

I'm sure there is more that I'm forgetting about but just wanted to toss in a few more points to this nonsense that punk is somehow a childish thing or rebellion thing. I'm 32 and yeah I still am against a lot of stuff, so I guess im a childish rebel oh well, in the words of Steve Ignorant, "Fuk em".