A real American hero.

@JTT,

Quote:

One doesn't have to obey orders that are crimes

You are not in charge of determining what is a crime. Why dont we leave the Law to do that or we might be guilty of putting you in a position well above your pay grade.

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@JTT,

He signed the contract. Next time read the bloody fine print. It's not like someone who openly ignores the Amazon.com privacy policy or something along those lines.

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@JTT,

Quote:

You get a few honest Americans and all you want to do is punish them. He should be given a medal.

What about you ? Do you want a medal for supporting him ? Are you one of the 'few', those special few , who know more than the collective wisdom of thousands of years of soldiering, who we should be gratefull for, who share their wisdom very freely and are happy to be a dictator whether we realise their value or not ? (fade to picture of JTT with waving flag behind him and stirring music to love one another by)

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Ionus wrote:

You are not in charge of determining what is a crime.

No? What are you? A slug?

Every reasoning mind should be able to tell you what is a crime..

One can, however, abdicate his human condition..

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@Francis,

Quote:

Every reasoning mind should be able to tell you what is a crime..

Where do you fit in this reasoning mind scenario ? We have laws to determine what is a crime. We dont need you. Al Capone never saw himself as doing wrong. He saw himself as providing a service. So much for the poetic beauty of a reasoning mind. Grow up and look at the real world.

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@Ionus,

Completely unwarranted aggression against sovereign nations is a war crime. Planning and assisting in attempts to overthrow governments is terrorism.

That's the situation for both Iraq and Afghanistan. The same was true for Vietnam, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Iran, Angola, ... .

No soldier has to obey orders and involve him/herself in these criminal actions. The man should get a medal for speaking out about the criminal actions of the USA.

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@tsarstepan,

Quote:

He signed the contract.

No one is contractually bound to commit war crimes or crimes of any nature. That's the case when one involves themself in illegal invasions.

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@Ionus,

So much for your take on what constitutes a reasoning mind.

The comparison you made was certainly apropos though, the USA and Al Capone.

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@JTT,

Quote:

Completely unwarranted aggression against sovereign nations is a war crime.

Then you can cite the reference in the Geneva Convention ?

Quote:

Planning and assisting in attempts to overthrow governments is terrorism.

But if the military refuse to follow the orders of the elected government but follow your orders instead, what is that ?

Quote:

That's the situation for both Iraq and Afghanistan. The same was true for Vietnam, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Iran, Angola, ... .

Only in your opinion. I will let others judge the worth of it.

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No soldier has to obey orders and involve him/herself in these criminal actions.

Put your money where your mouth is...enlist and refuse to go.

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The man should get a medal for speaking out about the criminal actions of the USA.

Speaking out gets you a medal ? Are you speaking out ? Do you want a medal for courage but are scared to risk your life ? You want to give medals for speaking out...interesting concept.

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@JTT,

Quote:

No one is contractually bound to commit war crimes or crimes of any nature.

It is a "crime of any nature" not to go. He will be committing war crimes ??? Tell the veterans that. You are xenophobic. You think the US can just sit there and follow your detailed instructions. You arent a very powerful indivual are you which is why you spend so much time shouting hysterical hype. If only the world would do what you tell it.

Quote:

That's the case when one involves themself in illegal invasions.

So in this flower power world of yours, what is a legal invasion ?

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@JTT,

Quote:

The comparison you made was certainly apropos though, the USA and Al Capone.

I made no such comparison. Do you normally need glasses because they only work if you wear them.

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Ionus wrote:

Where do you fit in this reasoning mind scenario ?

In a perfectly good place: third generation of males who have not been in the army.

However, I've been on war scenes and saw the perpetration of war crimes.

and wrote:

We have laws to determine what is a crime. We dont need you.

Sure, you don't. Might makes right.

Along goes the misery and the suffering of humankind.

and wrote:

Al Capone never saw himself as doing wrong. He saw himself as providing a service.

Were you friends or even close relatives, as he confided such intimate stuff?

and wrote:

So much for the poetic beauty of a reasoning mind. Grow up and look at the real world.

I'll never surrend beauty and justice no matter what "real politicians" will tell me.

I'm sufficiently grown up and have quite a good grasp on real world.

Only it's not the same view as yours...

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@Francis,

So these war crimes you saw perpetrated, do you mean you saw evidence of them or you saw the perpetration of them ? Anyway, what did you base your determination on that they were war crimes or did you use the law ?

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Might makes right. Along goes the misery and the suffering of humankind.

Regrettably for humanity, you are correct.

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Were you friends or even close relatives, as he confided such intimate stuff?

No I wasnt. Do you doubt the accuracy of what I quoted ?

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I'll never surrend beauty and justice no matter what "real politicians" will tell me. I'm sufficiently grown up and have quite a good grasp on real world.
Only it's not the same view as yours...

Good. Stay that way. There are too many cynical arseholes like me in the world anyway. I acknowledge you won that point.

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@JTT,

Victor Agosto was courtmartialed and discharged by the army.
I still say he should have been put in military prison or shot , but I didnt get to make the decision.

http://original.antiwar.com/jamail/2009/11/06/war-comes-home-with-ft-hood-shootings/

Quote:

Victor Agosto, an Iraq war veteran who was discharged from the military after publicly refusing to deploy to Afghanistan, has had firsthand experience with the SRC at Fort Hood, where he too was based.

"I knew there would be a confrontation when I was there, because the only reason to do that process is to deploy," Agosto, speaking to IPS near Fort Hood, explained.

Agosto was court-martialed for refusing an order to go to the SRC to prepare to deploy to Afghanistan.

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Thanks, mysteryman, your link also included this interesting information:

Quote:

To many, the shocking story of a soldier killing five of his comrades does not come as a surprise considering that the military has, for years now, been sending troops with untreated PTSD back into the U.S. occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

According to an Armed Forces Health Surveillance Center analysis, reported in the Denver Post in August 2008, more than "43,000 service members " two-thirds of them in the Army or Army Reserve " were classified as non-deployable for medical reasons three months before they deployed to Iraq.

In April 2008, the RAND Corporation released a stunning report revealing that, "Nearly 20 percent of military service members who have returned from Iraq and Afghanistan " 300,000 in all " report symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder or major depression, yet only slightly more than half have sought treatment."

Joe(they were non-ployable before they were deployed. uh huh)Nation

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@mysteryman,

Does that mean that he's now shed of those war criminals? If so, lucky man, if not, I'm sure that he feels it can't come too soon.

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@JTT,

Quote:

Does that mean that he's now shed of those war criminals? If so, lucky man, if not, I'm sure that he feels it can't come too soon.

Does that mean those brave people are now shed of this selfish coward ? If so, lucky people, if not, I'm sure that they feel it cant come too soon.

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@Joe Nation,

Quote:

yet only slightly more than half have sought treatment

This is a problem multiplying a problem. Here we had one officer who left the military and is having lots of disorder in his life, but as he put it, he feels like he has to go begging to them for help.

In WWII, the single most common reason for discharge from the Marine Corps was battle trauma, closely followed by incapacitating physical injury. None were ever followed up. The highest suicide rate (surpassing teenage boys) was amongst Vietnam veterans. I say was because they are getting far fewer now. I guess the problem is self correcting.

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@Ionus,

War criminals are not brave people. People who have no problem destroying the lives of others, murdering many in the process in order to line their pockets are war criminals.

Someone who points that up and refuses to take part in such heinous crimes is hardly a selfish coward. The selfish cowards are folks like you who just hang in there, putting in time, just to get your little share of the booty.

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@JTT,

Quote:

War criminals are not brave people.

Brave people are not war criminals.
People dont respect you, do they ? Your version of reality has been twisted by your mind so you will seem to be more important than you really are. Only you know the truth, only you can save the world, only you have lovely morals, only you would never be a war criminal...wrong. You are living in a fantasy world where you can live off of the drugs produced by your body being driven by emotions. You are not important. Put your money where you big mouth is...join the military and refuse to go...or are you just another big mouthed coward with delusions of importance trying to justify their pathetic existence by finding relevancy to something...anything.

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A real American hero.

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