Gospel of Prosperity Not Biblical

I would guess you don't have a lot of wealth or material possessions then?

The health and wealth doctrines that are being taught are absolutely wrong. You have a right not to like them. Faith and prosperity do not go hand in hand. Rain falls on both believers and non-believers. In other words we all struggle - Christians are not exempt from hard times, nor are they ever promised that they will be. I do believe that the televangelists that preach this as a doctrine of Scripture are doing a great disservice to their listeners.

That doctrine is absolutely blasphemous. Anybody who preaches this doctrine of wealth and claims to be a Christian is not only a hypocrite but a lying apostate. Jesus could not have made it any clearer than when he said it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It's why in the Roman church monks and nuns take vows of poverty as do priests in certain orders.

If I believed in such a thing as hell (which I do not), I'd be absolutely certain that anyone claiming to be a man of God who preaches this doctrine is already irrevocably condemned to the everlasting fire.

I feel like I'm missing out on quite a lot of new developments over there. I've never heard of this 'gospel of prosperity'.

This is really being preached in churches?

I dunno. I thought it was a carryover from the Calvinist school of thought.

And I thought Calvinists were into austerity in word, thought and deed. I'll have to read about it (or ask my brother-in-law) who went to a calivinist affiliated college.

Anyway - I pictured this 'gospel' being preached in one of those new mega churches- and the Sunday worship service being like an Amway convention or something- - not that that's funny - just sort of par for the course.

Sadly Aidan - that's about right. It's the mega churches that seem to lead out...then you have smaller churches that carry on the example.

Roger said

Nah, Roger...Calvin never taught that. He had a major doctrinal issue that is quite a debate between some schools of thought- but not the health and wealth doctrince.

People love the idea...that if I do A and B then C will be mine. So all of these people flock to the church - they give of their time and money to help others, they have faith and they expect that they will have money and health in return. There is a feeling of well-being that can be expected when we give of our time and our goods to serve others - and not even that always...but the promise is never wealth and good health.

These preachers set themselves up as an example of how God has blessed them with things - homes, cars, good health - they have wonderful stories of how they started from little and trusted God and he blessed them with much.
So others expect that it should happen to them as well. It's just not that way. And it can be found no where in Scripture.

If I have the gumption, I will be back later...sometimes explaining my views here is exhausting - at best

This is a ploy to get contributions to the church - a distortion of " Give and You Shall Receive"

Not only is it wong, it perpetuates the view that God is some kind of Sugar Daddy and "blesses" certain people - or that grace can be bought.

I hate the "exclusiveness" of most religious groups, anyway.

I love it too, mis. If folks think that giving of their time and money to help others brings them something in this life or the next one then bring it on.

I quite honestly don't care what they think the reward will be but I've worked with many folks who give real benefit and relief to those in need on behalf of their church (mega and otherwise). If "reward" is the motivator then it's all ok by me.

Nah, that was just the Presbyterians.

Actually, it was the "works" creedo that resulted in working themselves to the top of most businesses and becoming wealthy beyond imagination to most of us. All work and no play makes Presby...

JPB said

I guess what I am concerned about is the disappointment they feel when they are not blessed by money and health. They lose heart. That is not good. Although...I guess if they are doing it soley for those reasons they deserve what they have coming...but I hate feeling that way too. Don't want anyone to lose heart. ehhhhh....anyway...I just think that we should do for others because we can, and we want to help - not expecting anything in return.

it's not new. It was an issue in some Baptist churches back in the 1970's. A friend's dad was "demoted" within their church when he lost his job, couldn't tithe enough any more. She left the (what do you call a lump of Baptist churches? not dioceses) at that point.

Calvinism comes into it only insofar as Calvinists tend to see well-to-do people as having been blessed by God and the needy as somehow having brought poverty upon themselves. But, since they implicitly endorse a doctrine of predestination, they don't preach that everyone should strive for wealth.

[Disclaimer: I am not a qualified theologian. That is merely my own limited understanding of what Calvin and his followers have been all about.]

Nor am I Merry Andrew - but I know a few Presbyterians ( I being one).

That might have been the case at one point in the Presbyterian Church - but it has split now...there are two larger churches - with some smaller ones - but they all have their own presbyteries. P.C.U.S.A. is generally considered the more liberal of the two - P.C.A. is the more conservative. Then you have the smaller ones such as Cumberland. The fact is that even within each of these Churches the Five Points of Calvinism is not always understood by many of the congregation, and certainly is not taught from the pulpit. I think Calvin himself was even hesitant to bring this up in the pulpit because of the confusion it caused. The fact is that it has nothing to do with the Gospel (the Gospel being - realization that you (not YOU - just you - generally) are a sinner, your need of a savior and accepting Christ as that savior - understanding that he died on the cross to save your sins and to give you life - this is open to everyone who wants to believe )...so many do not consider it an absolute necessity to believe in Calvin's teachings in order to be a believer - a follower of Christ.

It may have, at one point with older congregations been thought a person's wealth and health symbolized their status as a Christian, but that really is not adhered to - at least by the P.C.A. (Presbyterian Church of America). But these days - I would say it was not something that is taught in most of the churches. If there are some that do, they are probably more backwater churches that are not part of the main Presbyteries that form the government of the Presbyterian Church of America.

Hey Bethie - was it Southern Baptist? They call theirs a Convention. The Baptists really don't have a credo per se. But if they fly the flag of Southern Baptist then they belong to a Convention - even that has been split again recently.

Very many different beliefs flying around these days. People just have different ideas. I wonder one day if there will even be an organized church - or if it will dilute and break down to the point where there is only a remnant of believers that adhere to Scripture and are pretty much just a non-denominational group of folks that cling to the basics. Who knows? It is interesting to think about though. But I digress...

The main problem with Presbyterians is they think they KNOW everything. They generally tend to be a well educated lot and can be a bit of a pain the butt when it comes to their understanding of scripture. Dear though they are, they can be a bit conceited and need to be taken down a notch every once in a while. Which I am glad to do. They are no different than most folks - they think they know what they know and can be quite stubborn.

But - I would say the ones I know do not believe that because they are Presbyterians they have prospered. I think they were once known as the Frozen Chosen. But I hope that no longer applies to most of them. Yuck. That is just wrong.

That's horrible Beth...the Church should be a place they were protected while he was without a job...not a place where they were cast aside because they were unable to tithe. Yuck. again.

Hello, nycfunction - don't remember talking with you before.

I've heard the "Gospel of Prosperity" preached in a few slightly different ways, each as perverse to me as the next.

It's very subtle and slick the way some of the churches try to pass it off as something with a foundation in the word of God. Not only do some of them teach that if you have nice things you must be living right, but I've even had someone talk to me about being rewarded in heaven according to your works here on earth.

It's stuff like this that has poisoned the message of Jesus that is positive - about forgiveness, and redemption, and invincible love.

I mean, she was actually saying that even in heaven there is some kind of social strata, with those who were somehow"better" on earth having something "more" in heaven.

I'm sure everything was an issue in one church or another sometime. I went to a Baptist church in the 70's and I never heard of anything like that happening- although of course that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

But one of the major identifying characteristics of a church that would call itself Baptist is the philosophy of individual belief and responsibility- each congregation is an independently acting and governing body:



So if she thought this was a Baptist belief or phenomena - she was most likely mistaken. It had much more to do with the people who went to her own individual church.

In my parents' church (which was Southern Baptist) one of their most treasured members was a homeless man (well, not really - he had an apartment but he didn't like to stay there= he preferred walking and living on the streets) who was mentally ill. The congregation adopted him and when he died, he left his Bible, which is the one thing he always carried with him, to my mother, and the content of the apartment to the church to distribute to other homeless people.
So there's a different sort of Baptist church for you.

I agree with Snood though. I think people get the ideas of other people mixed up with those of Jesus, when it comes to religion.

If the message of prosperity is off-putting to many of you, I'd like you to consider the alternative: That being poor is somehow godly. I despise that message intensely, and it should surprise no one here that this implicit gospel message has caused unimaginable strife, suffering, and premature death through the centuries. Christians had for too long considered the lilies of the field, and after due consideration, concluded that it was a perfect excuse for underacheivement and the reason for the squalor around them.

I'll take the gospel of prosperity any day. At least I understand it. The church leaders who preach prosperity are only bringing the message in line with present-day reality, and they know how to make the holy cash register ka-ching.

Okay, fine - you prefer upward mobility. More power to you. But since there is no such thing as "the gospel of prosperity according to Jesus", why mix Christianity with it at all? There is a word for that religion already - its Capitalism. And long may it wave, but it simply ain't what Jesus was getting at.