5
   

Fear of Math

 
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 12:47 pm
@Brandon9000,
Not sure of your point there Brandon. "Discussion of equations" later can imply the question of whether they have solutions, and if so, whether such solutions are "real" or "imaginary" etc.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 01:03 pm
@BillRM,
UK grammar schools started trig at age 12 but it was confined to spatial problems. Calculus at 15 was confined to equations of motion, and maxima and minima of quadratic and cubic functions. The two were combined thereafter with the study of circular and hyperbolic functions.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 01:25 pm
@fresco,
UK system seem to be far better then the US one as of the 1960s and I assume up to today for that matter.

Could anyone give input on the current math offer to college bound students at the high school level today in the US?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 06:11 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Not sure of your point there Brandon. "Discussion of equations" later can imply the question of whether they have solutions, and if so, whether such solutions are "real" or "imaginary" etc.


Here's my point. You said:

Quote:
This "fear of math" clearly has its origins in the "tyranny" of the right answer at elementary level. Most other subjects award points for "effort" and are open to "shades of gray".


as though there were something wrong with a math class teacher grading a student in a math class down for being unable to supply the one and only right answer. There isn't. It's math, not political science or literary analysis.
0 Replies
 
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 08:47 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
I remember one exam question which started with the words "Discuss the equation...".


Was it the integral of e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 09:30 pm
Discussion is good, but there's nothing wrong with expecting a right answer.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Aug, 2009 11:23 pm
@oolongteasup,
Does this boil down to: INT (0) =0 ?
If so, then presumably this is a special case of INT (0), not a general result.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2009 12:08 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
Discussion is good, but there's nothing wrong with expecting a right answer.


I'll jump in on this one-- I worked on a project to develop a research based curriculum for high school algebra. There is clear research to show that while expecting a right answer may be good math, it is bad education.

For those of us who do math as a profession, math is more than a machine where you turn the crank and out pops an answer. Math for us is a language, a way of expressing ideas.

For example, I work as a software engineer where I need to propose and defend algorithms for large server based speech recognition. I rarely need a numerical answer-- and often, even with a room full of very smart, geeks with advanced degrees, we still argue over which solution is best (and often the answer is only found through experiment).

I need to be able to grasp a problem, and then express it mathematically. My ability to find roots of a polynomial doesn't matter. My ability to correctly identify an algorithm as O(N^2) -- and my ability to explain why this is relevant in terms of a specific problem is the most important thing of all.

When I was teaching high school physics, there was a class of student (with very good grades) who could do everything they needed to get an A in algebra. The solved simultaneous equations. They found roots of polynomials.

It was rote-- they were doing arithmetic (mechanically following steps they memorized) rather than math (using reason to develop and express ideas and solve new problems).

They had no clue of "Why" they would ever need to find roots of an equation... and they could never solve a problem involving a polynomial unless they had seen that exact problem before.

This was deeply frustrating to me.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2009 12:23 am
@ebrown p,
"Fear of math" sets in at an early age. Many primary teachers have no concept of mathematical modelling and this situation is unlikely to change given the economics of the profession.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2009 12:42 am
@fresco,
In the project I worked on developing an algebra curriculum, one of the wise advisors we had... a retired Harvard professor we were all in awe of... said the following (paraphrased as best I can remember).

"The biggest problem we have in teaching Algebra is that when a student asks 'Why do we need to learn this?' (a perfectly reasonable question) we are unable to give a good answer."

How many people in this discussion can find the roots of a 2nd order polynomial? This is something we all learned to do in high school. Most of the people who forgot it right after the test went on to live perfectly fulfilling lives.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2009 01:55 am
@ebrown p,
The concept of modelling can be introduced much earlier than algebra by illustrating for children the fact that numbers and operations are themselves are already abstractions from situations.

e.g. If it takes 3 minutes to boil an egg, how long for 2 eggs....to which the child replies 6. Pointing out that the eggs are in the same pan and that addition is the "wrong" model can be quite entertaining to the child.

IMO "algebra" should be justified by pointing out that "numbers" are already abstractions.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Aug, 2009 05:01 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
Discussion is good, but there's nothing wrong with expecting a right answer.


I'll jump in on this one-- I worked on a project to develop a research based curriculum for high school algebra. There is clear research to show that while expecting a right answer may be good math, it is bad education.

For those of us who do math as a profession, math is more than a machine where you turn the crank and out pops an answer. Math for us is a language, a way of expressing ideas.

For example, I work as a software engineer where I need to propose and defend algorithms for large server based speech recognition. I rarely need a numerical answer-- and often, even with a room full of very smart, geeks with advanced degrees, we still argue over which solution is best (and often the answer is only found through experiment).

I need to be able to grasp a problem, and then express it mathematically. My ability to find roots of a polynomial doesn't matter. My ability to correctly identify an algorithm as O(N^2) -- and my ability to explain why this is relevant in terms of a specific problem is the most important thing of all.

When I was teaching high school physics, there was a class of student (with very good grades) who could do everything they needed to get an A in algebra. The solved simultaneous equations. They found roots of polynomials.

It was rote-- they were doing arithmetic (mechanically following steps they memorized) rather than math (using reason to develop and express ideas and solve new problems).

They had no clue of "Why" they would ever need to find roots of an equation... and they could never solve a problem involving a polynomial unless they had seen that exact problem before.

This was deeply frustrating to me.


It's fine to teach students the reasoning behind mathematical algorithms, but ONLY IF, after taking the class, they actually can calculate the answers. Being able to get the right answer is a minimum prerequisite.
0 Replies
 
 

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