0
   

IN THE FREEMARKET WHY DID THE GOVERNMENT GIVE 12 TRILLION OF OUR MONEY TO FAILED BANKERS AGAINST OUR

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 12:20 pm
@Amigo,
It's not my own personal opinion, Amigo, it's the standard view; however Paul Volcker agrees with you, and he's behind the new restrictions on banks >
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2215397320100122?type=marketsNews
> if they get passed into law, that is.
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 04:57 am
@High Seas,
I want to swing the axe for my worcking Americans right on the CEO's neck.

It's a new kind of freemarket philosophy we forgot.... Or is it an old one.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 05:48 am
I don't have time for this High Seas! You know we got ripped off NOW TELL US HOW IT WORKS!! Or leave us alone.

If the free market is The Man robbing my labour then I will fight the man.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:04 am
@Amigo,
The Man trying to rob you is Mrs Pelosi - right now we're about halfway down the sovereign risk list, if that new health entitlement becomes law we'll move somewhere between Italy and Portugal. That's an actual calculation, see for yourself:
http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00522/sovereignrisk_522682a.jpg
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:37 am
I was of the understanding that these banks had to repay monies given by your government.

High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:40 am
@dadpad,
This list is for countries, not banks. The risk calculation is for "sovereign" credit risk, not market risk. If you mean the Royal Bank of Canada, issuer of the report, they never had to borrow from the government, being well capitalized and managed.
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:47 am
@High Seas,
i was not refereing to your chart HS which obviously lists the credit risks for countries. and btw i'm seriously surprised that greece is not in the red zone.

i was refering to
Quote:
Vice President Joseph Biden, who devoted much of his time last year to helping to oversee the $787 billion stimulus program that Obama signed into law last February.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 08:51 am
@High Seas,
Where are we supposed to see this "actual calculation?" You provided no link and there is nothing in the chart to indicate it.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 09:41 am
@parados,
For heaven's sake - don't you know to right-click on a graph to find its source?! This is the last time I'm teaching elementary web surfing to you:

link to graph
http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00522/sovereignrisk_522682a.jpg

link to publication
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/why-rim-stock-is-on-the-rise-europe-wants-its-own-fund/article1493973/?cmpid=1
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 11:57 am
@High Seas,
Quote:
For heaven's sake - don't you know to right-click on a graph to find its source?! This is the last time I'm teaching elementary web surfing to you:

Really? The jpg file contains the math? Or perhaps you think the jpeg file contains a link to the story?


As to the publication..
Could you kindly highlight the calculation in the story you linked to?
The price of RIM stock doesn't really seem to relate to how the US rating will change based on any calculation.
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 09:14 pm
RIGHT HERE!!!!

Obamas Top Contributors:

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
Time Warner $590,084
Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
Stanford University $586,557
National Amusements Inc $551,683
UBS AG $543,219
Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
IBM Corp $528,822
Columbia University $528,302
Morgan Stanley $514,881
General Electric $499,130
US Government $494,820
Latham & Watkins $493,835


http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 10:43 am
@dadpad,
dadpad wrote:

I was of the understanding that these banks had to repay monies given by your government.

In re TARP, "too big to fail" argument applies to countries (like Greece), states (like California) other public and quasi-public (Fannie, Freddie) and obviously private entities (excluding those who got bankrupted by their unions). Only the last group so far is supposed to pay back these monies or chip in to other bailout costs: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503983_162-6095684-503983.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
Quote:
The White House estimates that TARP losses will amount to $117-billion dollars. The fees would raise about $90-billion over 10 years. The fees could be extended if all losses are not covered...The auto companies that received bailouts would not be subject to the fees, nor would Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.

High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 10:45 am
@dadpad,
Biden is used by this administration as both a shield and a spear, so it's hard to tell how solid is his support for the (excellent) Volcker proposal.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 10:46 am
@Amigo,
Amigo - interesting link, thanks. Do you also have a source for monies contributed by unions and their members?
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 10:59 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
....Could you kindly highlight the calculation in the story you linked to?...

Sorry - anyone incapable of figuring out the meaning of
Quote:
PGDN
on his keyboard is beyond help by any human agency.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:16 am
@High Seas,
PS the EU experience provides some lessons for the US as well, as does Australia's massive turnaround in its public finances via monetization of public assets via establishment of a trust fund http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15664086
Quote:
If harmony on a bail-out fund is elusive, ministers have found something on which they can all agree: the dastardly role played in Greece’s recent troubles by “speculators”. They are accused of buying credit-default swaps (CDSs), a form of insurance against default, in order to drive up Greece’s borrowing costs and then to profit from the ensuing panic. France and Germany have echoed calls for a ban on the so-called “naked” trading of sovereign CDSs, where investors do not hold the bonds they have bought insurance on, and asked the European Commission to look into the matter. The possibility that gyrations in Greek bond yields could be explained by uncertainty about its public finances is, oddly, ignored.

The rating-agency issue is more grounded in reality. From next year bonds will again only be eligible as collateral at the European Central Bank if they are rated A- or above by at least one of the three big rating firms. If Greece loses its remaining A rating from Moody’s, its bonds will be less prized by banks, raising its borrowing costs. But as Mr Weber says, the ECB could choose to lend against lower-rated bonds on more punitive terms. This at least is a real problem with a sensible solution.


High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:19 am
@High Seas,
PPS from the same publication the article on Lehman's accounting sleight-of-hand for hiding liabilities via repos - Greece used it as well:
Quote:
But Repo 105 took advantage of an accounting rule called SFAS 140, which enabled Lehman to reclassify such borrowing as a sale. Lehman would give collateral to its counterparty and receive cash in return. Because the deal was being recorded as a sale, the collateral disappeared from Lehman’s balance-sheet and the bank used the cash it generated to pay down debt. To outsiders, it looked as though Lehman had reduced its leverage. In fact, the obligation to buy back the collateral remained. Once the quarter-end had come and gone, Lehman borrowed money to repay the cash and buy back the collateral, and its leverage spiked back up again.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 11:33 am
@High Seas,
final note here - will be gone for several days and look forward to reading you but won't be posting - so on this last item from The Economist http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15695099 I'd like to add that in Greece's case not only were the repo rates arranged so as to conceal its debt, but so were the exchange rates: California at least only used USD throughout, so their accounts are easier to audit.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2010 02:26 pm
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

parados wrote:
....Could you kindly highlight the calculation in the story you linked to?...

Sorry - anyone incapable of figuring out the meaning of
Quote:
PGDN
on his keyboard is beyond help by any human agency.


I read every word on the page you linked to High Seas including the 2 comments from readers. There is nothing there about calculating the US position on the chart if we pass health care.

If you could provide the words, then I can search for it on the rest of the Mail site. Until then, your snotty comments only reflect badly on you because your link doesn't provide what you say it does.
0 Replies
 
 

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