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Can you force yourself to have faith or is it some type of feeling?

 
 
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 02:25 pm
I am feeling a bit lost right now and I sometimes look at religious types and envy their seeming conviction in not only a higher power, but a higher power that feels something for them (eg love, concern, indulgence). It appears to give some people a tremendous amount of comfort to have this faith in a higher power. I would love to have the comfort of this "faith" but I have never been able to achieve this state. Faith for me is based on experience. I have faith in the dawn because the sun has risen every single day of my life. I do not know how to have faith in something-someone that I do not have any experience with. I do not know how to go about achieving this state of faith. Can it be forced, learned, taught or is it just a feeling?
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 2,528 • Replies: 10
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Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 02:27 pm
@ShellyBelly,
Quote:
Can it be forced, learned, taught or is it just a feeling?


I believe it can be all of these things. It depends on the person.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 04:06 pm
@ShellyBelly,
Quote:
I do not know how to have faith in something-someone that I do not have any experience with


Some spiritual writers argue as follows:

There is a part of I which seeks the comfort of a relationship with something which is not-I, in the same sense that a child might seek the comfort of a parent....hence faith/messiahs/religion and all their encumbent irrationality. But the "spiritual key" is to realise that self and not-self are holistically inseperable such thast neither exists without the other. Thus the irony is that the "self which seeks comfort" must disappear!..it must dissipate and become part of "the whole" in order to transcend the simplistic concept of "faith".
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superjuly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 04:10 pm
"...words are very unecessary, they can only do you harm."
Enjoy the silence.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 04:17 pm
@superjuly,
...yes...well said !

Contrast that with the biblical:
"In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God".
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sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 04:20 pm
@superjuly,
You said: "not only a higher power, but a higher power that feels something for them (eg love, concern, indulgence)."

These 2 are not the same thing. Belief that there is some kind of higher power (ie God, serendipity, fate, karma, etc. etc) that may be responsible for the initial life source of creation for mankind, does not mean that higher power is going to care or even love us. This higher Power is not a Sugar Daddy and does not bargain with you. He does not favor the good, indeed evil is ingnored. It cannot be pleased and it does not get mad at you.

I suppose I believe that there is a higher power, but that power is very disinterested in human beings and basically has left us alone to figure it all out. I

I do believe there have been (and exist now) certain people who are superior moral thinkers who have guided mankind throughout history.
ShellyBelly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 04:53 pm
Sullyfish you said "I suppose I believe that there is a higher power". May I ask, would your classify your “suppose[d] belief” as "faith" in a higher power or “hope” in a higher power?

I have hope for something after death myself. Something which, to use Fresco’s words, is “not-I” because I think I would feel less alone or more understood or….well it just makes me uncomfortable to think that everything was kind of an accident or a fluke so maybe that is why I hope for the “not-I”…But I have no faith that there is a “not-I”.

And Fresco, is there a step-by-step manual for the tangible thinkers of the world on how to “dissipate the self which seeks comfort”? Or do you suppose this is what all religions of the world have been trying to come up with, “THE MANUAL”?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 05:26 pm
@ShellyBelly,
That comfort you are looking for can come with one hell of a high price see the stories of the survivors of Jone town to start with and go on from there.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 11:28 pm
@ShellyBelly,
Buddhist and Taoists may have manuals. Krishnamurti tells us to throw them away.
http://krishnamurti.magnify.net/video/KRISHNAMURTI-Last-Talks-Part
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KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 11:49 pm
@ShellyBelly,
Anyone can force themselves to do anything....why do you think religion will help you?
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:49 am
@sullyfish6,
Quote:
But I have no faith that there is a “not-I”.


To which might be added.. but nor is there an "I"...."faith" doesn't come into it when that non-dualistic point is understood.
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