hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 03:40 pm
@hamburgboy,
Quote:
The Maran Centaurus was hijacked Nov. 29 about 800 miles (1,300 kilometers) off the Somali coast. It was carrying about 2 million barrels of crude oil from Saudi Arabia destined for the United States, estimated to be worth roughly $150 million at the time of the attack.


seems that $ 6 million is a small price to pay for the shipping line/insureres .
cost of the tanker might be another $ 500 million or more .

it's all relative , isn't it ?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 03:45 pm
@hamburgboy,
That would be no solution at all. There's not a chance this will happen to any significant degree.

U.S. ships and those of other western countries are - and have long been - registered in Panama and Liberia expressly to escape the reach of maratime (seafarer) unions and environmental regulators. The economic incentives for doing this are very large, particularly with respect to the unions which resist automation and impose very uneconomical and restrictive work rules. An amusing result is that the Seafgarers union in this country is an almost dead relic of its former self, but despite its decline, it still hasn't learned anything. The few old folks left there have the attitude that "I've got mine and I'm keeping it." - no evident concern about a now dead industry. Effective parasites in nature don't kill their hosts. Labor unions are rather stupid parasites.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 04:18 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:


U.S. ships and those of other western countries are - and have long been - registered in Panama and Liberia expressly to escape the reach of maratime (seafarer) unions and environmental regulators. ...


Well, the termini here are "crews of convenience' and 'flags of convenience'.

At least in Europe, it has little to nothing to do with unions and especially environmental regulators but with less costs and less safety and less ...
(Many German ships got foreign flags/crews but still travel on "bareboat charter" to save even more taxes.)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 04:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The consumers who buy goods manufactured in countries where there is less human rights are doing the same thing.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 04:25 pm
Addendum for hamburger: "Störtebecker's skull" has been stolen ...
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 04:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
i suspect the somalis PURCHASED it with the ransom extracted Shocked
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 05:24 pm
@spendius,
What countries do you have in mind here? China? Myanmar? Venezuela? Cuba? Iran?
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 05:42 pm
@georgeob1,
you made a good start , george !

gets pretty difficult to find consumer goods made in the USA or canada .
shirts , shoes , socks ... ... can't find many/any " made in USA / canada " labels .
TV's , computers , now even furniture come across the great wide pacific .

the panama canal gives a fascinating view of this trade .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 05:46 pm
@georgeob1,
Anywhere where work is done by people who owe their low status position to their parents for the benefit of people who owe their high status position to their's. I used "countries" to keep it simple. And polite. By which I mean easily discussed in abstract terms without feeling funny at cocktail parties or in the club.

I can well imagine George that an officer on a big ship would easily become habituated by the institutional necessities of successful organisation, continually practiced and symbolised, being served at table from the left, say, or having egg on his cap, to feeling a superior person to a grease monkey in the engine room and, as such, entitled to certain considerations which Jesus would have frowned upon.

roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 06:43 pm
@spendius,
Your congressman can get you into one of the military acadamies. After that, you're on your own..
0 Replies
 
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 07:00 pm
PIRACY INSURANCE ( LLOYD'S OF LONDON )
-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.lloyds.com/News_Centre/Features_from_Lloyds/Piracy_insurance_policy_fills_gap_in_cover.htm

from the article :

Quote:
Risking the route

There are over 22,000 transits through the Gulf of Aden every year. But, as Mr Townsend points out, without piracy insurance shipowners and charterers risk incurring significant costs with no recourse.

“The only alternative shipowners and charterers have is to avoid the Gulf of Aden and transit around the Cape,” he says. “The additional cost of that 10-12 day detour with extra fuel and wages can be as much as $2m.”

Importantly, Aon’s cover is triggered from day one of the attack with nil deductible. The insurance is available worldwide, to cover other piracy hotspots, and is written on a voyage basis.


with 22,000 annual transits and perhaps only a dozen highjackings , the shipowners seem to be willing to face the risk rather than going in convoys .

it's a simply risk/reward calculation imo .
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 07:21 pm
@hamburgboy,
Quote:
it's a simply risk/reward calculation imo .


You are really going out on a limb there, considering that the owners have said as much.

The answer is to let no hijacked owner put their ships into our waters until they have paid a fine to the UN.... $10 mil per hijacking should do the trick. If we can get the eu and japan to go along with us it should work.
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 07:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The answer is to let no hijacked owner put their ships into our waters until they have paid a fine to the UN.... $10 mil per hijacking should do the trick. If we can get the eu and japan to go along with us it should work.


has the united states made such a proposal ?
i certainly have not heard it mentioned .

i agree that highjacking should be stopped .
it just seems that the current arrangements seem rather convenient .

would you not think that shipping companies would jump at the chancce of having a less dangerous alternative at reasonable cost ?

again , considering the large number of ships out on the open seas , the shipowners must think that the present arrangement serves them well FOR THE TIME BEING .
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 07:40 pm
@hamburgboy,
we have not, but we should lead such a UN program to address the problem. It likely would run afoul of new fair trade law though.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 09:34 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I can well imagine George that an officer on a big ship would easily become habituated by the institutional necessities of successful organisation, continually practiced and symbolised, being served at table from the left, say, or having egg on his cap, to feeling a superior person to a grease monkey in the engine room and, as such, entitled to certain considerations which Jesus would have frowned upon.


You may imagine, but evidently not well. I submit that you know nothing at all of which you speak. Rank and power have everything to do with one's role in such an organization, and not his worth as a human being - something that is the same for all. It is a rather poor ship, squadron or batttalion if that principle is not alive and well understood.

Besides, we didn't call them "grease monkeys" , we called them "snipes" (or ******* engineers).
0 Replies
 
 

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