hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 04:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
for transcript of interview :

http://www.pri.org/theworld/?q=node/25615

WHAT'S BEHIND SOMALIA PIRACY ?
Quote:
SMOCK: Most of these pirates have a background in fishing. They're familiar with the seas. They've gone far out on the seas to fish. One of the complaints of the Somali fishermen is that their fishing grounds have been exploited illegally by foreign fishing trawlers, but just to compare the income they could get by piracy versus fishing, it leads with piracy


or : go where the money is rather than some bony fish !
a familiar concept imo .
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 04:02 pm
@tsarstepan,
yes, but on the other hand humanity on this patch of sand does not get fixed till the people living on it want something better for themselves and their kids. In the meantime our mission should be to contain the outbreak of inhumanity.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 04:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
You are wrong on several counts, some that Setanta has noted and others as well.

The major forces preventing the arming of the crews of merchant ships are the various sefarers unions and the insurance companies that insure the owners for injuries to crewmen. Given that they are usually the same underwriters who insure the vessels & cargo, they could easily be motivated to change their policies. However, behind all of this is the nonsensical insistence of Western Governments that their domestic legal processes must be applied to the treatment of pirates acting in international waters. This too limits the potential arming of ship's crews. To make matters even more foolish, the European naval vessels operating off the horn of Africa deal only with assaults on their own flagged ships and, absent an onboard magistrate (sic !) actually release any pirates they catch.

The Somali coastline is about 1,500 miles long. The pirates are operating in small boats, launched from mother ships as far as 500 miles off the Somali coast. There aren't enough naval escorts in the western world to effectively patrol this huge and heavily travelled ocean area using the methods now in force. It seems clear from their many successes that the pirates have access to modern communications and ship routing data: this is much more than a random collection of displaced Somali fishermen.

Until very recently piracy was treated as a crime against all nations and pirates as effectively at war with all as well. Thus preemptive military action was warranted and trial & punishment by military tribunals was the rule for those captured. Under these principles our naval forces would be able to simply destroy & sink any mother ships so identified, without waiting endlessly to observe them in the act of launching an attack. This could easily end the piracy in a matter of weeks. Some continued enforcement would undoubtedly be needed, but soon those financing the operations and even the Somali teenagers manning the boats would calculate the odds and act accordingly.

However all this has become decidedly unfashionable, as Prtesident Bush discovered with respect to terrorists who were defined similarly by the previous administration. Meanwhile we will enjoy the spectacle of the forthcoming terrorists trials in our domestic courts.
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 04:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the outbreak of inhumanity.


???

the arrangements between shipping companies and pirates seem quite " human " (civilized) = they negotiate !
the captured crews are usually treated very humanely ... after all , they represent real money !
0 Replies
 
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 04:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
these pirates are no dummies - as the BBC reports :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7650415.stm



Quote:
BBC Somalia analyst Mohamed Mohamed says such pirate gangs are usually made up of three different types:



- Ex-fishermen, who are considered the brains of the operation because they know the sea
- Ex-militiamen, who are considered the muscle - having fought for various Somali clan warlords
- The technical experts, who are the computer geeks and know how to operate the hi-tech equipment needed to operate as a pirate - satellite phones, GPS and military hardware.

The three groups share the ever-increasing illicit profits - ransoms paid in cash by the shipping companies.

A report by UK think-tank Chatham House says piracy off the coast of Somalia has cost up to $30m (£17m) in ransoms so far this year.

The study also notes that the pirates are becoming more aggressive and assertive - something the initial $22m ransom demanded for MV Faina proves. The asking price has apparently since fallen to $8m.



and as i said : " they do negotiate the ransom " - a good business practice imo .
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jan, 2010 04:39 pm
@georgeob1,
Your points are all well taken, of course. The important one is the failure of contemporary governments to view piracy and pirates in the light in which they were seen throughout history--hostis humani generis, the enemies of all mankind. Navies of centuries gone by did not scruple to deal quickly, harshly and effectively with pirates who opposed them in arms, and no nation agonized about the rectitude of their legal proceedings against them. Usually, admiralty courts dealt with them, and no one ever questioned their jurisdiction.

That is, after all, what "enemies of all mankind" means.
hamburgboy
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 09:54 am
@Setanta,
from the BOSTON HERALD :

( wondering if this indeed is true - april 1 still some time away )

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/international/africa/view.bg?articleid=1226545&format=text

Quote:
Pirates ask good guys to chase off rivals

By Associated Press | Tuesday, January 19, 2010 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Africa

NAIROBI, Kenya - A shootout between rival Somali pirate gangs over their biggest ransom ever threatened to turn an oil supertanker with 28 hostages aboard into a massive fireball until one group of beleaguered buccaneers begged the anti-piracy force for help, a negotiator said yesterday.

A group of pirates showed up in two speedboats just before a $5.5 million ransom was to be dropped by parachute onto the Maran Centaurus, according to a Somali businessman behind the negotiations who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Two helicopters chased away the attackers seeking a cut of the ransom after the pirates onboard called frantically for help.

“It’s really remarkable: You have the criminals calling on the police to come and help them,” said pirate expert Roger Middleton from London-based think tank Chatham House.

The stand off began Sunday, nearly two months after the supertanker was seized on Nov. 29 about 800 miles off the Somali coast. After weeks of wrangling, the pirates had finally settled on a $5.5 million ransom for the tanker, the Somali businessman said.

Cmdr. John Harbour, the spokesman for the European Union Naval Force, said the arrival of the rival pirate gang prompted the pirates onboard the tanker to call for assistance from the anti-piracy force. He could not say whether assistance was provided.

The Somali middleman said two helicopters from a nearby warship intervened, hovering over the attacking skiffs.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 10:00 am
Europeans resolve to take strong action . . . hilarity ensues.
hamburgboy
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 10:11 am
@Setanta,
and REUTERS reports :

( it seems to me that paying ransom is considered "small change " - it's all part of doing business - not really much different than bribery , is it ?
it is included in the price of the goods delivered - both ransom and bribery )

Quote:
FACTBOX - Ships held by Somali pirates
Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:26pm IST
REUTERS - Somali pirates have freed the Maran Centaurus, a Greek-flagged tanker carrying 2 million barrels of oil for a record ransom and witnesses said four pirates were killed in a clash between rival groups over the cash.

The release of the ship came a day after the money was dropped onto its deck on Sunday. The Maran Centaurus was seized on Nov. 29 with 28 crew aboard. The ransom was believed to be between $5.5 million and $7 million, officials said.

Here is a list of ships under the control of Somali pirates:

* WIN FAR 161: Taiwanese tuna boat, seized on April 6, 2009.

* AL KHALIQ - Seized on Oct. 22, 2009. The Panamanian-registered ship carried 26 crew, 24 of them Indian. It is owned and operated by SNP Shipping of Mumbai. The 38,305 dwt bulk carrier was seized west of the Seychelles.

* THAI UNION 3 - Seized on Oct. 29, 2009. Pirates on two skiffs boarded the tuna fishing boat with 23 Russians, two Filipinos and two Ghanaians on board.

* FILITSA: Seized on Nov. 10, 2009. The 23,709 dwt cargo ship had a crew including three Greek officers and the rest Filipinos. The Marshall Islands-flagged ship had been heading from Kuwait to Durban, South Africa, when it was attacked 500 miles northeast of the Seychelles.

* THERESA VIII: Seized on Nov. 16, 2009. The chemical tanker was hijacked in the south Somali Basin, northwest of the Seychelles. The 22,294 dwt tanker had a crew of 28 North Koreans. The captain of the tanker died from gunshot wounds sustained during the hijack, a Somali pirate said.

* NESEYA: Seized on Dec. 18, 2009. The Indian dhow with 13 Indian crew members was seized off the coast of Kismayo in southern Somalia.

* SOCOTRA 1: Seized on Dec. 25, 2009: The Yemeni-owned ship was captured in the Gulf of Aden after it left Alshahr port in the eastern province of Hadramout. There are six Yemeni crew aboard.

* AL MAHMOUD 2: Reported on Dec. 28, 2009. The cargo vessel left Yemen's southern port of Aden on Dec. 18, with 15 sailors and a captain on board -- all Yemenis.

* ST JAMES PARK: Seized on Dec. 28, 2009. The UK-flagged 13,924 dwt chemical tanker had been sailing to Thailand from Spain with a chemical used to make plastics when it sent a distress signal from the Gulf of Aden. Its 26 crew members were from Bulgaria, Georgia, India, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Turkey and Ukraine.

* NAVIOS APOLLON: Seized on Dec. 28, 2009: The Panama-flagged 52,000 dwt bulk cargo vessel was seized about 800 miles off the Somali coast, north of the Seychelles. The vessel was sailing from the U.S. to India with a cargo of fertiliser. The Greek management company confirmed there were 19 crew.

* ASIAN GLORY: Seized Jan. 1, 2010. British-flagged vehicle carrier, hijacked approximately 900 miles north of the Seychelles. The 25 crew aboard consists of eight Bulgarians, including the captain, 10 Ukrainians, five Indians and two Romanians.

* MV PRAMONI: Seized Jan. 1, 2010. The Singaporean-flagged

20,000 tonnes dwt chemical tanker was hijacked in the Gulf of Aden on route from Italy to India. The 24 crew consists of 17 Indonesians, 5 Chinese 1 Nigerian and 1 Vietnamese.
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 10:23 am
@hamburgboy,
the maran centaurus is a 300 metre plus tanker - probebly worth a good chunck of money - particularly when filled to the brim with oil .

ransom = included in the price ( next time you fill up your gastank ) .

 http://images.vesseltracker.com/images/vessels/midres/Maran-Centaurus-39403.jpg
0 Replies
 
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 11:04 am
this must be better than going to las vegas !
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LLOYD'S OF LONDON :

Hijackers hit jackpot with record $6m ransom win

Crew of VLCC safe and well after 50-day ordeal, despite reports of gun battles between pirate factions over payment

Nigel Lowry - Tuesday 19 January 2010

SOMALI pirates have enjoyed their biggest pay day so far with a ransom of $6m that secured the release of the hijacked Greek very large crude carrier Maran Centaurus early yesterday morning.

A day earlier, a helicopter dropped $5.5m on the deck of the very large crude carrier. It is understood that smaller transfers bring the total ransom up to ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this all seems very well organized and carried out in a " business-like " fashion .
i wonder who the "middle-men" in these transactions are ?
surely , some banks must be in on this - both in supplying the cash and accepting it later .

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 12:42 pm
@hamburgboy,
Those who claim to be in the know allege that the Somali pirates are bankrolled by organized crime. It would not be a problem for them to dispose of large amounts of cash, or of bearer bonds.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 01:02 pm
@Setanta,
I agree. Moreover, the fact that they are operating from mother ships 600+ nautical miles off the Somali coast and selectively intercepting choice targets, tells us that there is a fairly sophisticated organization behind all this. They have good satellite communicationsd and access to current shipping data.

The premptory sinking of one or two of their mother ships would change the game entirely.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 01:08 pm
I mostly agree with that--but you know, the Indian Navy sank one of their big "mother" ships last summer, and it doesn't seem to have deterred them for long. Organized crime can afford a loss or two like that, and it would only be continued losses which would make them reassess their investment. That would require a concerted, effective action on the part of the naval forces involved. As i said earlier, the Europeans decided to take a strong line . . . and hilarity ensued.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 01:15 pm
@Setanta,
I agree - one or two acts alone won't do it. However, one or two such acts accompamied by the credible assertion that more would continue would indeed make a difference.

The alternative of the treatment of this problem as a police action, requiring catching the pirates in the act all across an enormous ocean area, is a perfect prescription for permanent piracy.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 01:28 pm
In essence, we had this conversation earlier. If the navies involved do not adopt the hostis humani generis attitude, along with the governments which control them, nothing will get done. They need to patrol for obvious reasons, but they need to patrol the coasts, and hunt these sons of bitches down in their lairs. In the case of Somalia, it's not as if they were impinging on the sovereignty of an actual nation. As for Kenya, they deserve no less--they have the resources and ability to do something about this, and they do nothing.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 02:49 pm
@Setanta,
Is that Hilarity Rodham-Clinton?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 03:07 pm
@Setanta,
Some Navy folks I stay in touch with tell me that some of the infrastructure for the piracy - and some of the profits - are in Kenya.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 03:22 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Some Navy folks I stay in touch with tell me that some of the infrastructure for the piracy - and some of the profits - are in Kenya.
Well that's a relief, I was afraid Yemen might be involved.
0 Replies
 
hamburgboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jan, 2010 03:31 pm
@georgeob1,
how is this for a partial solution :

western nations agree not to use " flag of convenience " ships , and that they will protect their ships !
the cost of shipping goods will likely be higher - perhaps much higher - than paying ransom ( and driving up all kinds of prices - including gasoline - at home ).
surely it will be a step in the right direction to control piracy .

i don't believe we have airlines that fly under FOC - so how about shipping lines also " obeying the rules " ?
are western nations afraid " to show the flag " ?

anyone willing to pay up at the gaspump - at least temporarily - to fight the pirates ?
 

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