What is happening to us as a society? Dr George Tiller murdered

Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 01:04 pm
gunned down in the lobby of his church this morning by a white man 50 - 60 years old. (still on the loose)

Wichita, KS (LifeNews.com) -- Late-term abortion practitioner George Tiller was shot and killed Sunday morning at his church in Wichita, Kansas. Tiller had long been highlighted by peaceful pro-life groups who had employed legal means to attempt to hold him accountable for potential illegal abortions at his abortion center.

Tiller, who was 67 and one of the few abortion practitioners in the United States to do late-term abortions, was killed Sunday morning at Reformation Lutheran Church shortly after 10 a.m.

According to police and local officials, Tiller was shot in the lobby of the church while entering the facility.

The gunman, who reportedly was a white man and shot Tiller from a distance, fled the scene in a late-model vehicle registered in another part of the state of Kansas.

The vehicle has been described as a powder blue-colored Ford Taurus with Kansas license plate 225 BAB registered to a resident of Merriam, Kansas which is located in the Kansas City area.

Leading pro-life groups were quick to condemn the shooting and said the murder of Tiller, regardless of his actions involving the death of unborn children and injuring women in abortions, did not justify the use of lethal force.

The Tiller shooting came on the heels of a jury acquitting Tiller of charges the state attorney filed against him for allegedly violating another late-term abortion law requiring a second, independent physician to sign off on the validity of the abortions.

The decision upset pro-life advocates who had been hoping to get Tiller to be held accountable for allegedly falsifying the reasons for some of his late-term abortions.

Yet, hours after the verdict, the Kansas Board of Healing Arts, the agency that monitors doctors in the state, announced that it is considering taking action against Tiller's medical license.

what does this solve?
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 01:15 pm
link to the local big city paper online...

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Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 02:03 pm
These bums become murderers, sinking to the level they preach they are above.
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Diest TKO
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 04:19 pm
So, these doctors are willing to put themselves in public danger and risk their medical licences to do a legal act? One might think they think it's an important service.

I really don't give a damn is pro-life groups condemn the murder.

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Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 05:20 pm
they've caught him...

The gunman fled, but a 51-year-old suspect was arrested some 170 miles away in suburban Kansas City three hours after the shooting, Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom Stolz said.

Long a focus of national anti-abortion groups, including a summer-long protest in 1991, Tiller was shot in the foyer of Reformation Lutheran Church, Stolz said. Tiller's attorney, Dan Monnat, said Tiller's wife, Jeanne, was in the choir at the time.

The suspect's name was not released; police had been looking for a gunman who fled in a car registered in the Kansas City suburb of Merriam.

Stolz said all indications were that the man acted alone, although authorities were investigating whether he had any connection to anti-abortion groups.

Stolz said the man was being brought back to Wichita, where he would likely be charged Monday with one count of murder and two of aggravated assault. Stolz said the gunman threatened two people who tried to stop him.

The slaying of the 67-year-old doctor is "an unspeakable tragedy," his widow, four children and 10 grandchildren said in statement. "This is particularly heart-wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace."

The family said its loss "is also a loss for the city of Wichita and women across America. George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality health care despite frequent threats and violence."

Tiller's Women's Health Care Services clinic is one of just three in the nation where abortions are performed after the 21st week of pregnancy. The clinic was heavily fortified and Tiller often traveled with a bodyguard, but Stolz said there was no indication of security at the church Sunday.

Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri said it was working with law enforcement to secure its facilities Sunday even after the suspect was in custody.
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Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 06:08 pm

So much for the idea of "right to life".

That's my problem with the anti-choice crowd, they only love life when it isn't born. After birth it's every woman (and her baby) for herself.

You want to know what group is a huge supporter of abortion rights? Women who relinquished their children to adoption, especially those who did so pre Roe V. Wade. The anti-choice crowd should educate themselves on the lives of post-born women in crisis pregnancies.
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 06:39 pm
What she said.

Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 07:07 pm

I remember when i was pregnant at 19 and i was going to the planned parenthood clinics just for check ups ( they were 10.00 ) there would be HOARDS of people out there yelling and screaming at me.
It was as if they just were waiting for a time to scream. They didnt care WHAT it was about .......****.. I OBVIOUSLY was not there for an abortion....... they just wanted to scream.
as if yelling your opinion at anyone changes anything.Self righteous assholes should have been abortions.

Green Witch
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 07:39 pm
All extreme fanatics scare me. They are all the same, no matter whose side they claim to be on.
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 07:45 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:

All extreme fanatics scare me. They are all the same, no matter whose side they claim to be on.

Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 07:50 pm
have to agree with green witch
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Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 10:10 pm
He is on his way back to Wichita for trial.

they picked him up without incident as he drove casually back home to Kansas City waiting to be famous...
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Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 09:27 am
Jason Linkins [email protected]
George Tiller Murder Prompts Second Look At Scandalized DHS Report
06- 1-09

In the wake of the murder of Dr. George Tiller, The Plum Line's Greg Sargent is making a lot of sense:

You may recall the enormous controversy that erupted in April over a Department of Homeland Security report that assessed the threat of "right wing extremists." The story provoked days of nonstop cable chatter, and DHS chief Janet Napolitano ultimately apologized.

Fast forward to the huge and horrible news yesterday that late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was shot dead by a man who reportedly posted on the blog of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue. Maybe we should take another look at all that criticism?

One passage from the DHS report that provoked nonstop outrage said that right wing extremists "may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

I recall that at the time, I found it a bit bizarre that many conservatives seemed to want to go out of their way to identify and equate themselves with domestic neo-Nazi organizations and violent religious fundamentalists. As has been often pointed out, the word "conservative" did not appear in the report, so the race to stand up for and embrace a violent political fringe seemed unnecessary and contrary to logic.

That said, one can't ignore the recent uptick in the mainstreaming of this sort of fringe whackery. Back in April, Dave Weigel noted that Republican consultant Matt Mackowiak was likening the "tea party" movement to the "Project Mayhem" domestic terrorists depicted in the movie Fight Club. (Which I thought we agreed we weren't supposed to talk about?) And, via Matt Yglesias, here's Representative Michael McCaul urging a crowd to bloodshed for the sake of the "tree of liberty":

The Bush administration, which put in motion the research that led to the aforementioned DHS report, and Janet Napolitano, who shepherded it to its public release, seem to have been on to something. Looking back, I think it's just swell how everyone dug down really deep into the politics of it, instead of the substance.

Time To Revisit Criticism Of DHS Report On "Right Wing Extremists"? [The Plum Line]

The Plum LineGreg Sargent's blog

Time To Revisit Criticism Of DHS Report On “Right Wing Extremists”?
You may recall the enormous controversy that erupted in April over a Department of Homeland Security report that assessed the threat of “right wing extremists.” The story provoked days of nonstop cable chatter, and DHS chief Janet Napolitano ultimately apologized.

Fast forward to the huge and horrible news yesterday that late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was shot dead by a man who reportedly posted on the blog of the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue. Maybe we should take another look at all that criticism?

One passage from the DHS report that provoked nonstop outrage said that right wing extremists “may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.”

Some on the right read this passage and decided it was a reference to them. Top conservative blogger Michelle Malkin warned that it meant you’re being targeted by Obama’s big brother government “if you are a member of an active conservative group that opposes abortion” or if you are active on other issues.

This wasn’t a fringe interpretation of the report, by the way. RNC chair Michael Steele for instance, blasted the report for labeling peaceful dissenters on issues “as terrorists.” Other Republican members of Congress sounded similar tones.

It’s true that the report committed a misstep in suggesting returning veterans are a risk. But the general intent of the report, which was chock full of warnings about “lone wolf extremists” capable of violence, now looks perfectly defensible, even reasonable.
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 09:51 am
Suspect in Tiller's death supported killing abortion providers, friends say
By Judy L. Thomas | Kansas City Star

The suspect in custody for the slaying of Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller was a member of an anti-government group in the 1990s and a staunch opponent of abortion.

Scott P. Roeder, 51, of Merriam, Kan., a Kansas City suburb, was arrested on Interstate 35 near Gardner in suburban Johnson County, Kan., about three hours after the shooting. Tiller was shot to death around 10 a.m. inside Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita.

In the rear window of the 1993 blue Ford Taurus that he was driving was a red rose, a symbol often used by abortion opponents. On the rear of his car was a Christian fish symbol with the word "Jesus" inside.

Those who know Roeder said he believed that killing abortion doctors was an act of justifiable homicide.

"I know that he believed in justifiable homicide," said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City anti-abortion activist who made headlines in 1995 when she was ordered by a federal judge to stop using a bullhorn within 500 feet of any abortion clinic. "I know he very strongly believed that abortion was murder and that you ought to defend the little ones, both born and unborn."

Dinwiddie said she met Roeder while picketing outside the Kansas City Planned Parenthood clinic in 1996. Roeder walked into the clinic and asked to see the doctor, Robert Crist, she said.

"Robert Crist came out and he stared at him for approximately 45 seconds," she said. "Then he (Roeder) said, 'I've seen you now.' Then he turned his back and walked away, and they were scared to death. On the way out, he gave me a great big hug and he said, 'I've seen you in the newspaper. I just love what you're doing.'^"

Roeder also was a subscriber to Prayer and Action News, a magazine that advocated the justifiable homicide position, said publisher Dave Leach, an anti-abortion activist from Des Moines, Iowa.

"I met him once, and he wrote to me a few times," Leach said. "I remember that he was sympathetic to our cause, but I don't remember any details."

Leach said he met Roeder in Topeka when he went there to visit Shelley Shannon, who was in prison for the 1993 shooting of Tiller.

"He told me about a lot of conspiracy stuff and showed me how to take the magnetic strip out of a five-dollar bill," Leach said. "He said it was to keep the government from tracking your money."

Roeder, who in the 1990s was a manufacturing assemblyman, also was involved in the "Freemen" movement.

"Freemen" was a term adopted by those who claimed sovereignty from government jurisdiction and operated under their own legal system, which they called common-law courts. Adherents declared themselves exempt from laws, regulations and taxes and often filed liens against judges, prosecutors and others, claiming that money was owed to them as compensation.

In April 1996, Roeder was arrested in Topeka after Shawnee County sheriff's deputies stopped him for not having a proper license plate. In his car, officers said they found ammunition, a blasting cap, a fuse cord, a one-pound can of gunpowder and two 9-volt batteries, with one connected to a switch that could have been used to trigger a bomb.

Jim Jimerson, supervisor of the Kansas City ATF's bomb and arson unit, worked on the case.

"There wasn't enough there to blow up a building,'' Jimerson said at the time, ``but it could make several powerful pipe bombs...There was definitely enough there to kill somebody.''

Roeder, who then lived in Silver Lake, Kan., was stopped because he had an improper license plate that read "Sovereign private property. Immunity declared by law. Non-commercial American.'' Authorities said the plate was typical of those used by Freemen.

Roeder was arraigned on one count of criminal use of explosives and misdemeanor charges of driving on a suspended license, failure to carry a Kansas registration and failure to carry liability insurance.

He was found guilty and sentenced in June 1996 to 24 months of probation with intensive supervision and ordered to dissociate himself from anti-government groups that advocated violence.

But in December 1997, his probation ended six months early when the Kansas Court of Appeals overturned his conviction. The court held that evidence against Roeder was seized by authorities during an illegal search of his car.

Morris Wilson, commander of the Kansas Unorganized Citizens Militia in the mid-1990s, said he knew Roeder fairly well.

"I'd say he's a good ol' boy except he was just so fanatic about abortion," said Wilson, who now lives in western Nebraska. "He was always talking about how awful abortion was. But there's a lot of people who think abortion is awful."

Suzanne James, former director of victim's services for Shawnee County, said she remembered Roeder.

"He was part of the One Supreme Court, a Freemen group based out of Shawnee County," James said. "He was fanatic about a lot of things. I went to one of his court appearances and thought, 'This guy is dangerous.' There were a lot of red flags that came up about him."

In recent years, someone using the name Scott Roeder has posted anti-Tiller comments on various Internet sites. One post, dated Sept. 3, 2007 and placed on a site sponsored by Operation Rescue called chargetiller.com, said that Tiller needed to be "stopped."

"It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the 'lawlessness' which is spoken of in the Bible," it said. "Tiller is the concentration camp 'Mengele' of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgment upon our nation."

On May 19, 2007, a Scott Roeder commented on an invitation by Operation Rescue to join an event being held May 17-20 in Wichita, "the 'Nation's Abortion Capital,' to pray for an end to George R. Tiller's late-term abortion business and for all pre-born babies everywhere to once again come under the protection of law."

The post said: "Bless everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp. Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn't seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller."
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Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 09:55 am
Yeah, that's fucked up.

Reading the reactions on the right-wing sites is... instructive, to say the least.

Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 09:58 am
When will Americans realize that we have "Talibans" in our midst?

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Diest TKO
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 12:03 pm
I'm still grumbling about this.

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Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 12:02 am
Dr Tiller wore a flak vest anytime he went in public, presumably even under his suit while at church.

this joker knew that, and dr tillers wife was brought out to see him pass. (hence the screams)

he headshot a man in the lobby of his own church for religious reasons.

i hope god is proud now...
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Debra Law
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 12:46 am
Hate-mongers FoxNews & O'Reilly have blood on their hands. They stir the cauldrons of hate 24/7 and incite violent acts by whacko extremists who lap up their steady stream of poisoned rhetoric. O'Reilly openly and maliciously demonized Dr. Tiller for years while standing on his FoxNews pulpit. Today, O'Reilly spent about two seconds alleging that Fox News does not advocate vigilantism, but then went on a long tirade explaining why the doctor deserved to die.
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 02:02 am
@Debra Law,
I find myself wondering at what point in human history the promulgation of hate for financial (as opposed to military and political) profit became a career option for people prepared to do nothing on a personal, physical, basis to kill and maim?????
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