Is romantic music etc more complex than today's music?

Somewhere between well and very well (intermediate level you might say)

Imagine my joy.

I'm trying...concentrating really hard on that right now.

Yup . . . you clearly don't do irony . . .

but I CAN play the piano

Can you play Far, Far Away?

for you? hell no! I might make an error or mess up the timing or something.

Definitely . . . you don't do irony . . .

Oh believe me Setanta - I got it.
I just choose to ignore your feeble attempts at what you call humor (and I call nastiness).

Given your history as a shameless liar, i don't believe that for a moment.

Oh lord here we go again....what's my stock response again? Oh yeah, 'What a surprise...!

@ Setanta. thanks very much, but the argument was more about popular music of the twenty-first/late twentieth century. I suppose he is comparing apples and oranges, but musicality and complexity applies regardless of genre, even though they might have different types of these things. I can see how some modern orchestral composers, however, have created works with the complexity of classical composers.

@ aidan, I am unsure of my views on computer-played music. I'm not sure that it's cheating... it's kind of like using a dishwasher instead of doing the dishes by hand. The difference is that music, and the playing of it, has a huge amount of emotional value attached to it, which is why we oppose computer-played music. There isn't really a logical reason behind. I think this is just another part of the removal of the necessity for humanity. We are becoming obselete. Granted, in electronic music it is harder to convey the emotion through use of rubato, dynamics, and general musicality, but who knows, in 20 years we may be able to virtually "play" electronic music through brain implants, or exocortices.

I think this subject links in strongly with the rise of Artificial Intelligence. While an AI with human-like intelligence and semantic understand seems a long way off, the growth of technology is exponential and one probably isn't too far away. Sorry to get side-tracked, but I think we need to recognize that we must keep up with the capabilities of AI. In our biological forms we cannot hope to keep up, so we must aim to digitalize ourselves. Yep sorry to turn this into some abstract philosophical singularity discussion, but there you go.

And @ both of you: grow up, stop bitching and stop voting down eachother's posts. Aidan, she wasn't Mozart standard, but Sentanta for God's sake try to remember that she is not just a pianist, she is also a little girl. Anyone who has played the piano and who knows the sort of time and effort that goes into it will appreciate that appreciation is appreciated. Yea... . Setanta have you raised children? And do you play the piano? I suspect you wouldn't be very good at either...

No offense intended. Just a small witicism I decided to grant myself.

I don't vote peoples' posts "up" or "down." It would not surprise me to learn that Aidan does, that kind of thing is right up his alley. Once again, the child was not "very good," and in fact, she wasn't even "good." Here performance was "not bad." I have explained why i chose that performance, and i have addressed the issue of the performer's age. I also first pointed out that not everyone is a Mozart.

Your wit is pretty damned paltry.

My point is that she is still primarily a child who happens to play the piano, not a pianist who happens to be a child.

Do you have children Setanta?

I know what your point is, and Aidan made the same meaningless point. I addressed that, and it does not alter the fact that the performance was certainly not "very good," and in fact, considering the number of stumbles and the unsteady timing, was not even good.

Get over it.

Yeah, I don't know if it's the emotional value so much as the years of blood, sweat, tears and practice it used to take someone to master an instrument -that isn't really necessary anymore.
I'm also not sure the same amount of musical talent is called for in terms of composition and creation.
It seems that a computer is a great equalizer in that department (as well as many others) and if someone understands the technology, they can create quite impressive music fairly easily.
It's the same with photography or any sort of graphic art that can be done digitally or with computer enhancement. I use a digital camera and I'm happy with a lot of my images, but I don't for a moment equate what I or anyone can achieve digitally with what people like Ansel Adams or Clyde Butcher did before that technology was available.


It's interesting you bring this up. My son and I were just talking on the way home about the gradual strengthening and then degeneration of the human body and the fact that if we weren't actually living it, and someone described the process- it might sound like a science fiction story.
When you disengage from the process enough to look at it from a remove and objectively, the entire process from one cell to a dependent infant to a strong young and middle aged adult back to dependency and eventual infirmary in old age -- is really sort of surreal.
(We were watching an old woman slowly cross the street and he remarked that it was incredible to imagine that all the phases of her life from babyhood to the elderly woman we saw before us today - were contained in her cells).
Maybe with AI and other biologically enhancing technology in the future, the natural aging process will be looked at in just that way - as no longer the standard and somewhat surreal.


Yes, I was going to apologize to you for engaging in that. I should have apologized before you had to say anything. It was rude and immature of me to do that on your thread, continuing the back and forth after I could see that it was leading into the same old bullshit. I should have disengaged.
I'm sorry.
(But I didn't vote down anyone's post. I never have and I never will- and that is the truth. Honestly, I don't even know how to - anytime I've tried to vote up someone's post- it's always stayed the same- so I gave up trying to vote -even positively -a long time ago).

I don't deny she wasn't Mozart standard, but in my opinion she's a talented girl and does a great job at what she attempts at the piano.

Piano teacher's opinion:

I don't get where either of you are getting your 'good' and 'very good' standards from.
Surely this is the reason why we have a system of 8 grades (plus diplomas) and marks out of 150?
(Not that I'm stating that an exam result is a law or anything).

People have a funny reaction to kids. I must say I probably lie slightly on the '**** off, how dare you be so talented' side of the fence.