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our prison system is so bad

 
 
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 02:01 am
BillRM wrote:

Re: parados (Post 3657027)
Yes I cry every night over the idea that people who help plan flying planes into our buildings forcing people to jump to their deaths are in any way or in any manner have to suffer any degree of discomfort.

Shame on us.

*****************************************************************

You have to turn the other cheek, BILLRM. My Uncle was a Marine in World War II who once held Japanese captives in a clearing while he waited for transportation for them. One of them turned away and began walking.

My Uncle stabbed him in the anus. He turned the "other cheek"
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 12:22 pm
May 27, 2009
Perhaps the U.S. Prison System Could Learn a Few Things...
Recidivism and Guantánamo

By DAVE LINDORFF

You’d have to say that the American prison system is a rank failure. With two million inmates, it is the largest and at over $60 billion a year, the costliest prison system in the world, not just in the percent of the population that is kept behind bars, but in actual numbers. But it is also a failure because it doesn’t prevent crime, and might even increase it. According to a recent study</a>, two-thirds of inmates who are released from jail after serving their time are re-arrested for new crimes within three years, and half of those so arrested end up being sent back to jail on new charges.

I thought about this dismal record of non-rehabilitation when I read an today reporting that a Pentagon study has found that just five percent of the prisoners held at Guantanamo, after release, returned to their old “terrorist” ways. Okay, another nine percent of those released were said to have “joined or rejoined” the “fight against the US and its allies.” But that’s really a different thing entirely, and I was surprised to see the Pentagon’s number crunchers making the distinction.

For in fact, if you were an Iraqi, or an Afghani, you might well see fighting against US forces in your country not as a “terrorist” activity, but as an act of supreme patriotism and national honor, and in any case, it’s hard to see how you can call a fighter in either of those countries who is shooting at American troops a “terrorist.” He or she is a soldier fighting another soldier, and if anyone is the terrorist in that picture, it’s the one who has done the invading, which is the Americans.

Anyhow, given the nasty treatment meted out to Guantanamo detainees, and the fact that “rehabilitation” is not a word that even gets mentioned in conjunction with that hellhole of torture and abuse, you’ve got to admit that a recidivism rate of five percent, or even 14 percent, looks pretty damned good compared to our domestic prison recidivism rate of 67 percent!

Maybe the folks at the Federal Prison Administration and the various state penitentiaries and county jails should take a look at Guantanamo, to see if they could learn any tips to improve the US domestic prison system’s abominable recidivism rate.

Perhaps we could start by offering Islamic religious instruction at all prisons (it seems to do wonders to issue Korans to everyone brought in to Guantanamo). Waterboarding, stress positions, regular slams into walls and sleep deprivation, which are all common practices at Gitmo, might be effective, too, although I have this nagging suspicion that if they weren’t doing that stuff to the detainees at Guantanamo, 85 percent of whom the Pentagon admits are probably there by mistake, maybe the recidivism rate would be much lower than it already is.

Odds are that these tactics at Gitmo are making enemies, not breaking them.

So what else is there about Guantanamo that could be leading to tbese recidivism rates which are no doubt the envy of prison reformers the world around?

Well, for one thing, the Gitmo detainees are outdoors a lot. Instead of being shut in concrete bunkers like prisoners stateside, they spend their time in wire-mesh “dog runs.” Maybe the sunlight and warm air, and the relative quiet of their surroundings, make for sunnier dispositions.

They also reportedly have access (admittedly involuntary) to women, who lap dance on them and prance around in skimpy attire, while for the most part US prison inmates are strictly segregated by sex.

I guess another difference is that the prisoners at Guantanamo can tune out any verbal abuse from their guards, since few of them are proficient in English, while domestic prisoners have to take it all in.

And then there’s the Red Cross, which visits the inmates at Gitmo, but not in the regular US prison system"so lord only knows what horrors may be going on here at home.

Whatever the case, it sure seems like they’ve done a good job of rehabbing those nasty terrorists at Gitmo if they can keep the percentage of those who return to their bombs and their hijackings down to just five percent.

Of course, there’s always the possibility that the reason only five percent of people released from Guantanamo are “returning to terrorism” and only another nine percent are returning to the fight against American forces in their homelands is that they were the only ones who were actually terrorists and enemy fighters in the first place, and the other 86 percent of released detainees were just innocent people captured, detained, tortured and finally released.

Hmmmm. Maybe Gitmo is not such a great model of prison reform after all.

Dave Lindorff is a Philadelphia-based journalist and columnist. His latest book is “The Case for Impeachment” (St. Martin’s Press, 2006 and now available in paperback). He can be reached at [email protected]

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff05272009.html
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 May, 2009 01:33 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
It's about as smart as anything you've posted.


Ooohhh.....now that's eviscerating.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 May, 2009 12:27 am
@Merry Andrew,
Since you obviously don't know a thing about World War II,Mary Andrew, you yammer dead wrong--Here is evidence. Rebut it or crawl back into your hole.

After World War II ended, the prisoners were readied for repatriation. They were moved from the smaller branch camps to the base camps, and from there to the military installations at forts Bliss, Sam Houston, and Hood. Beginning in November 1945 the former POWs were returned to Europe at the rate of 50,000 a month, though most were used to help rebuild war-damaged France and Britain before their ultimate return to Germany. As the POWs left Texas by the trainload, the camps began to close. In Hearne the campsite and its 200 buildings were put up for public auction; in the 1980s the space comprised a small municipal airport and a proposed industrial park. The camp in Huntsville became part of Sam Houston State Teachers College (now Sam Houston State University); in April 1946 Camp Mexia became the site of Mexia State School for the Mentally Retarded; and Camp Swift in Bastrop later comprised scattered housing developments, a University of Texas cancer research center, a unit of the Texas National Guard,qv and an $11 million medium-security prison for first offenders.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 May, 2009 11:26 am
@genoves,
Quote:
Since you obviously don't know a thing about World War II,Mary Andrew, you yammer dead wrong--Here is evidence. Rebut it or crawl back into your hole.


What are you talking about? I never disagreed with one word that you've said about German POWs in WW II. Nor do I have any disagreement whatever with the following:

Quote:
After World War II ended, the prisoners were readied for repatriation. They were moved from the smaller branch camps to the base camps, and from there to the military installations at forts Bliss, Sam Houston, and Hood. Beginning in November 1945 the former POWs were returned to Europe at the rate of 50,000 a month, though most were used to help rebuild war-damaged France and Britain before their ultimate return to Germany. As the POWs left Texas by the trainload, the camps began to close. In Hearne the campsite and its 200 buildings were put up for public auction; in the 1980s the space comprised a small municipal airport and a proposed industrial park. The camp in Huntsville became part of Sam Houston State Teachers College (now Sam Houston State University); in April 1946 Camp Mexia became the site of Mexia State School for the Mentally Retarded; and Camp Swift in Bastrop later comprised scattered housing developments, a University of Texas cancer research center, a unit of the Texas National Guard,qv and an $11 million medium-security prison for first offenders.


I could add information to that, if you wish. As, for example, that the main park in Roswell, NM (can't remember its name now) was landscaped by German POWs and that some of them managed to incorporate images of Iron Stars and even Swastikas in some of the shrubbery they shaped.

I never disagreed with any of that.

I just said that your whole hysterical screed was a non-sequitur, which it is. You're blowing smoke again, old boy, to totally obfuscate the issue. The patented genoves smoke and mirrors tactic. What the hell has the treatment of German POWs during World War II have to do with the subject at hand?
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 02:28 am


Quote genoves
I am sure that Parados and Merry Andrew are not aware that the US did not repatriate the German and Italian Prisoners until after the war.
end of quote

Merry Andrew wrote:
You'd be dead wrong, of course, but that never stopped you from posting non-sequiturs in the past.

THEN, Genoves answered:

After World War II ended, the prisoners were readied for repatriation.


********************************************************

No, Merry Andrew, I was not dead wrong.

Again----The US did not repatriate the German and Italian prisoners until after the war.

So what?

It has been established that prisoners of war were not repatriated until after the war. The prisoners of war at GITMO also should not be repatriated until after the war. We just have to find a place to keep them but:

No other country wants them and no Congressman will vote to take them into his district.

Maybe Obama had better back up and keep GITMO open!
0 Replies
 
 

 
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