msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2009 08:53 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
Still think facebook type engagement is fraught with problems though


Yep. I agree.

Some very creative juggling between Facebook personality & classroom role would be needed.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2009 09:08 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
But maybe there's some sort of happy medium. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other. You don't have to be all stern and strike terror to be effective, but on the other hand, if you don't communicate that specific demeanor, it doesn't necessarily mean you're using your classroom as a confessional and careless in your appearance or language.


I probably didn't express it well, but I didn't mean that a good teacher is 'scary', but a good teacher does command respect. And because of that respect that stern look was sufficient to pull the most unruly kid back into proper decorum. We adored these teachers and we did not want to displease them. You don't command that kind of respect if you dress like the kids, talk like the kids, and fool around like the kids. It requires personal restraint, discipline, and professionalism.

At least that is the way it was for my generation. You younger ones may of course see it very differently and maybe it is even different now. But given the strained state of public education in the USA these days, I wonder sometimes.

I certainly do not think it adds to the learning environment for the students to see their teachers behaving like juveniles doing things parents wouldn't approve of in photos in Facebook.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Feb, 2009 09:15 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
I certainly do not think it adds to the learning environment for the students to see their teachers behaving like juveniles doing things parents wouldn't approve of in photos in Facebook.

I totally agree. That's why I'd never do that.
What teacher has time for facebook anyway? That's the question that occurs to me.
Or maybe people are just better at managing their work load and family communication responsibilities than I am.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 12:35 am
How many people here sharing there opinions on facebook actually have an account?

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 12:49 am
What difference does it make? The same principles would apply if we were talking about My Space or Yahoo or A2K.
Diest TKO
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 01:57 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

What difference does it make? The same principles would apply if we were talking about My Space or Yahoo or A2K.

If you are operating on the assumption that facebook interaction is the same as those sites listed, then you've illustrated my point quite well. You can't forget that in this new web culture, websites have their own character, and are quite unique.

Facebook
Yahoo
MySpace
A2K
4Chan
Twitter

They all have unique characteristics. The way people interact on FB is very different than places like here. As a recent college grad, I was a part of the whole generation figuring out what to do with this new level of social documentation in regards to professionalism etc. FB keeps reinventing itself, and new privacy AND sharing solutions become more and more available. I'm not telling anyone to go put whatever they want on their facebook, but I'm not going to stand by some ridiculous notion that school teachers must suffer poor wages on top of sacrifices in expression.

Businesses are getting FB accounts.
Obama and McCain did an incredible amount of campaigning using FB.

FB itself is an odd entity as it is almost the internet inside of the internet. A sort of 2nd order recursive universe. However unlike meta-spaces like video games, you are playing as yourself.

Certainly people could use an alternate name, but I think the exciting part of FB is how people see what others are doing and how they share.

I ask if you have a FB for a very legitimate reason. It doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, it just means that you can be honest that your opinion comes second hand.

Culturally speaking, I think about when I interviewed for jobs out of college. The temptation was too take out my earrings. The fear was that it would not be perceived as professional. I choose not to. The company would take me as is, or not at all. I planned to wear them everyday while working. I wanted to interview exactly as they would have me. I bring this up because there is this notion of what is an isn't professional that extends far too deep into people's life (both privately and publicly). If a company has expectations like that when you're not at work, then they can give out overtime. Otherwise, they can deal with it.

There are obvious exceptions where ethics are involved (A cop with pictures of them breaking a law etc). If the acts in the photos aren't criminal, then lets stop treating them as such.

T
K
O
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:06 am
@Diest TKO,
Thank you for expressing my thoughts so well. Smile
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:14 am
what teacher has time for FB? hmmm? same teacher that has time for email, for example (or able2know).

fb is quite unique indeed, i find i do more and more with it. especially when it comes to groups and events, integrated with mailing - many things are done with fb alone without stepping out for even email. truly an internet within internet.

it is not necessary to have fb page where you look like a drunken schmuck. i have a colleague in macedonia who is a teacher, a great teacher. his page is full of his students, on purpose. he runs a museum and a website and through FB he coordinates events and learning around it. as with any open system like this, you can use it for education, for fun, or to make an idiot out of yourself.
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 08:11 am
@dagmaraka,
I can imagine a face book page which was quite professional, but my understanding is that it is mainly used for personal chit chat and such

Several teachers here have been in trouble not for drunken whatevering, but for breaching the boundaries between friend and student....for instance for criticizing other staff as they would with a friend.

The other immediate problem I can see is re blurring personal boundaries leading to intimate relationships

I would also be very wary re kids using the space to pour out personal problems

This has happened a number of times that I am aware of with unwary professionals

If a kid says things that show they are at risk then the professional has a fiduciary duty to do something

This is all well and good but in a venue like facebook (and I have had a. Umber of desperate calls re this) a teacher can well be faced with stuff they have no idea what to do with, and an Extremely blurry situation re where their professional role has become quite confused with friend

This places them in a very unclear legal position, one which the stupid bastards often try to slough off onto mental health professionals, leaving us to pick up very messy and dangerous pieces

As you can see I have soMe very negative views of stupid teachers too dumb to keep clear boundaries

Having had to clear up the mess and assume their neglected duty

This is not just a facebook issue, of course

A2 k is different in that it has Lot of anonymity

If I thought for a second that a client of mine would turn up here and decognie me (I of course do not use a real name etc) I would likely have to disappear
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:04 am
@stach,
I went to school for many years before I got my doctorate.
I had many teachers, but it never occurred to me to appoint
any of them as a role model (or anyone else).
I always saw each teacher as a purveyor of information,
like the mailman or the weatherman. His personal life
and his personal opinions were private n irrelevant to the subject matter.
I can conceive of NO REASON that I shoud know his personal life.
It is enuf that I learn the facts of the course,
not the facts of the teacher. A few of my teachers were crazy;
mentally very unhealthy.

As for trusting, at age 11 I learned that trusting people was a bad business,
very unwise, and best kept to a minimum.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:15 am
On this forum, someone violated the privacy of some members,
including myself, and published the real name and portrait
of another fellow from Facebook. I was pleased not to have
anything to do with Facebook.

I remain ignorant of what it is for.

If u use it, must u give them a picture of your face ?





David
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:25 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I don't think so - but you have to create a profile. One of my friends sent me this invitation and I tried to see what it was about and it said something like: you can't view this unless you're a member. And I just don't have the time or inclination to create a profile. I have all the e-mail addresses of all the people I care to keep in touch with. I do it individually and personally. I think in the long run that means more and in fact, I appreciate that more personal approach myself.
If I didn't want to keep in touch with you - I wouldn't have. Those I wanted to keep in touch with I did and do - individually.

Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:32 am
@Diest TKO,
Please don't misunderstand me. I can see how a teacher might enjoy doing the same kinds of things I do on line including participating on A2K or My Space or Facebook or any other site that provides online communications however different from each other they are. I have no problem whatsoever with anybody doing what I do here, including teachers.

But I do value my reputation and am conscious of how what I post here might look to somebody on down the line, so I try diligently to say nothing here that I would not say to somebody's face and not post anything on line that I would be ashamed for my husband or kids or grandchild or employer or anybody else to see.

And I would think a teacher would be conscious that his/her on line communications might be made available to students as well as colleagues, professional contacts, et al. Posting pictures of a drunken party or other scenes that could be in any way compromising and posting compromising or too familiar information in general is not a smart thing for anybody to do, and most certainly not wise for a teacher to do.

We've all seen the stories of how nude pictures, etc. that were supposed to be shared only intimately with another person somehow wound up on the internet for all to see. A teacher could be especially vulnerable to that kind of personal sabotage, so he/she should not be making such available to be used in that way.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:34 am
@aidan,
Do u know the purpose and function of Facebook ?
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:39 am
@OmSigDAVID,
No, not really David. I think it's just another degeneration of polite socialization. Like, how I may have written an individual letter to you, because I know what you and I talk about and have in common - I might - just in the interest of saving time - post some sort of all encompassing newsletter - like those letters that people send at Christmastime- as if I would say to you exactly the same thing that I would say to someone I went to college with.

I simply wouldn't do that. I talk about different things with you than I do with my friend Lori from college.
I can't write you two the same letters.
But I guess facebook fans think it's all the same, or at least that's my impression. Like I said, I don't feel I have the time or inclination to care to find out..
I like individual letters.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:44 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

No, not really David. I think it's just another degeneration of polite socialization. Like, how I may have written an individual letter to you, because I know what you and I talk about and have in common - I might - just in the interest of saving time - post some sort of all encompassing newsletter - like those letters that people send at Christmastime- as if I would say to you exactly the same thing that I would say to someone I went to college with.

I simply wouldn't do that. I talk about different things with you than I do with my friend Lori from college.
I can't write you two the same letters.
But I guess facebook fans think it's all the same.
I know it's not.

I see.

It strikes me as odd that anyone woud choose to publish
pictures of himself doing anything for which he can be held
to account, to his detriment, as I have read on this thread.
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:45 am
I don't mind on occasion to amuse the students with a personal anecdote, if it ties into the context of my lesson plan, however I never make them of a particularly intimate nature.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 10:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Yeah- I think it's all about how important 'fame' has become. If everybody can't or doesn't know about it - it somehow means less- almost like it didn't really happen- unless other people see it and comment on it.

I'm really curious to see my friend's facebook page - but i won't sacrifice my privacy to see it on principle. I have a friend who has facebook and I've asked him to let me sign in on his account so I can see what our mutual friends have posted and I'm going to give those specific people my personal e-mail.
0 Replies
 
stach
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 02:52 pm
@dagmaraka,
i teach English, btw kde si sa narodila, na Slovensku? Kde tam?
0 Replies
 
stach
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 03:02 pm
@Foxfyre,
What you say makes sense and I believe you did respect such teachers. But the problem is that this philosophy and practice hasn't proved in real life. Have these teachers made the world a better place? Or have they rather just helped their students to excell in inventing better weapons or make more money?
 

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