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Why does god want us to believe?

 
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:00 pm
It seems as if he asked us only two things, to be decent to each other and to believe in him. Why does he ask that of us?
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 3,948 • Replies: 39
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:02 pm
@LordStorm,
When did you last speak to him? How did you know it was him? Does he have a secret password or handshake to identify himself? You wouldn't just be taking the word of others who claim that they spoke to him and are just passing on the information - would you? That could be dangerous and confusing.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:06 pm
@LordStorm,
Did she asked it to you in person?

If she is a decent god, what does she care, isn't she busy enough with the poor people dying in Palestina or elsewhere?
LordStorm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:14 pm
@LordStorm,
ok guys we all know i did not personally speak to God. I am obviously refering to the bible. So let's put the sarcasm aside and try to answer the question in a way that doesn't critisize my lack of specification of the question.
...And Francis stop the she bull**** your not profound or great by calling god a she its just annoying.
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:24 pm
@LordStorm,
LS, I'm not really joking. I just see no evidence of anything divine in the Bible (or the Koran or the Book of Morman etc.). I'm not saying divinity does not exist, I just don't see the evidence in these books. I believe the Bible was written by a bunch of men trying to understand the world they lived in a few thousand years ago. I have no idea why people think it applies to the world today. It has a few little statements about being nice to each other, but mostly it is a rule book (with some history thrown in) aimed at an ancient world that no longer exists. Mostly, it is not a very inspiring book to live by.

The whole thing of applying a sex to God also makes no sense. If you wish to use the male form of speech when describing God I will not contradict you. I have no evidence either way.
Francis
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:25 pm
@LordStorm,
You should stop your bullshit about that the bible being the word of god.

God is obviously a she, don't you know?

What you find annoying means very little to me...
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:32 pm
@LordStorm,
What God/god are you referring to? How do you know what he/she/it is asking? Was this from some direct communication..or from a vision, perhaps?

The last time I checked, there's nothing wiritten in the Bible that has been proven to be true or has been authenticated. It's an book with a mystique that IMHO should be read like any other peace of literary fiction.
0 Replies
 
LordStorm
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:37 pm
@Green Witch,
I have never read the bible I have never gone to church so I wont claim to know everything or anything that is in it, but didn't jesus (old testament or new im not sure) say (or at least the people that wrote the bible said he did) not to take the word of the bible word for word, that many of these were merly stories created for an almost analogous purpose so people could understand the ethics and word of god. Once again I do not claim to have read the bible I am simply stating what someone else has said to me in a conversation.

I apologize if I seemed offensive about the gender issue of God. It just bothers me to no end when people take things too far and believe they are some deep and profound being for thinking things that are "against the grain". I mean there are kids in my school that talk about the goverment being curropt like its some huge shocker or big news. Or there are other kids that talk about how they are athiest and that religion is flawed and cant be real and they act as if they are some sort of rebel like its some huge un-heard of logic. I mean I am in no way sexist or against you believing god is a woman man object or spirit without gender but for gosh sakes don't go out of your way to make it and issue we call god a man for simplicity and out of habit not becuase we have some personall vendetta against women.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:40 pm
@LordStorm,
So, you never read the Bible...but want to make statements that you claim are true about what the Bible says? Do I have this correct?

Someone in a conversation once said to me that the moon was made of green cheese. Should I believe them?
LordStorm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:48 pm
@Ragman,
not at all I had a discussion with another person and they stated several things:
1.God asked of us two things in the bible, that we believe and that we treat each other decently.
2. Jesus said that these stories ect. are not all to be taken litterally.
3. other things that don't apply to the conversation at this point.

Later I was wondering Why would god care if we believed or not? and I thought I would ask, I have no knowledge of the bible beyond what I have been told I am simply repeating what I have heard to try to get closer to answering my question and to get a larger, fuller picture. I make no claims about what the bible says only claims on what I have been told what it says if its wrong say so and site the evidence of its integrity.
LordStorm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:52 pm
@LordStorm,
*against its integrity
sorry
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:05 pm
@LordStorm,
LS, I suggest you read the Bible (old & new), the Koran, the Buddhist Sutras, the Upanishads and every book on mythology you can get your hands on. You might also want to browse some Joseph Campbell for filler. Knowledge is power - and you have no knowledge. You are taking the word of others - for all you know they are just a bunch of story tellers, liars, or fools. The same might be said for some of us here.

But here is my little input: Your friend is incorrect about the god of the Bible asking for only two things. He asks for a heck a lot more than that. In fact, the book goes on for pages and pages with all the things God wants humans to do or not do. It gets rather tedious - I don't know how religious Jews manage it all. Jesus had his own To Do List for his followers. Less complicated than his father's list, but still rather picky.

Personally, I have no problem with people switching around the gender of god. It's the least of god's problems

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:12 pm
If there is a GOD…a personal GOD like you imagine…one of the things that the GOD might want is for humans to be “decent” to one another. One would certainly hope that a personal GOD would head in that direction.

I don’t know why any GOD would want people to “believe” in him/her/it. That seems rather far-fetched. If it were important to a personal GOD to have humans acknowledge his/her/its existence…a GOD surely has better ways of achieving that than to require “belief.”

Belief, as something positive in a humans, is utter nonsense…and is only considered a valuable thing by theists who need it to explain why they are so sure there is a GOD despite no evidence at all.

But one of the reasons why I am convinced the god of the Bible is not GOD…is because of the petty, venial nature of that god.

You cannot say of that god…”the only two things GOD asks of us”…because the god of the Bible asks for lots and lots of things…some of which might embarrass a Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Adolph Hitler, or Caligula, Emperor of Rome.

Good post, Storm. You’re on to something. Hope it leads you to a good place.


0 Replies
 
LordStorm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:23 pm
@LordStorm,
Ok, I have no desire to read the bible at the moment religous philosophy/ arguments very rarely intrigue me. I don't know if there is a god or not a god I have no proof, nor have I heard any proof that can completely discount the other. Believe what you want it doesn't bother me in the least. I do not claim that the bible is the word of god so don't attack me from that angle, I have not read the bible and therefore made a disclaimer near the begining stating that I was NOT quoting the bible in any way shape or form I was merely asking a question that intruiged me after having a discussion with another person. So how about i re-word this question: In a theoretical situation where god wished us to believe in him is true then why do you think he would ask this of us.

And GreenWitch that is an extremely bold statement to make that I have no knowledge, I will not argue that I have no or very little knowledge in the field of religion but I believe there are many other areas of life that I have acquired a decent amount of knowledge and intelligence of.

And Francis what makes you think god is a girl? Have you had a conversation with god some sort of vision? if god was then wouldn't it be called goddess and not god?
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:29 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:
LS, I suggest you read the Bible (old & new), the Koran, the Buddhist Sutras, the Upanishads and every book on mythology you can get your hands on.


Up next, someone asks for a definition for a word and Green Witch tells them to read all the dictionaries and encyclopedias there are. Laughing

LordStorm,

It sounds to me that you are asking a theological question about Jesus' law of love. You'll have to come to your own conclusions about whether Jesus superseded all previous laws but I'll try to point you at the specific passages that they are referring to to save you some of that reading.

Quote:
Matthew 22:37-40

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


So some interpret this to mean that the Old Testament was full of laws that the New Testament (and Jesus) did away with. There are several passages in the New Testament that seem to corroborate this viewpoint, here is one more.

Quote:
Romans 8:1-2

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


But at the same time there are many passages in the New Testament that seem to contradict it. Here is just one example I could remember.

Quote:
James 2:10

10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


Some people reconcile these apparent contradictions by saying that Jesus did not do away with the laws, but freed his believers from condemnation to hell based on the laws. The thinking goes that no human could follow all the laws, and that Jesus' sacrifice is forgiveness from Hell for those who choose to believe in him without necessarily doing away with all the old laws themselves.

You can learn more on this and related theological arguments by searching for terms like "God's only law" or "the Law of Love".
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:37 pm
@LordStorm,
Quote:
And GreenWitch that is an extremely bold statement to make that I have no knowledge, I will not argue that I have no or very little knowledge in the field of religion but I believe there are many other areas of life that I have acquired a decent amount of knowledge and intelligence of.


I was speaking specifically of this topic. For all I know you are a brilliant gynecologist, circus clown, or race car driver.

I think to discuss this topic you need to have a foundation of knowledge that comes from reading these books. I think as a citizen of the world it is important to know what the great religions preach. I understand now that you looking to refute your friends claim that god only wants two things. The problem is it would take pages and pages to debate this issue. I suggest you tell your friend to start by reading the Book of Deuteronomy in the Bible for a few of God's demands upon his followers.

You must also forgive our jumping to conclusions about your purpose. This site is bombarded by religious fanatics looking for a fight, and we mistakenly took you to be one of them.
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:40 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert, I did misunderstand LS purpose in posting and I state so above. As you know better than any of us, this type of post appears often and is usually accompanied by a chip on the shoulder. It hit my defense button and I responded in too quick a manner.
0 Replies
 
Miklos7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:43 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Whether there is a God or not, I don't know. But recent research in genetics by a number of scientists suggests that we humans are born programmed to look for something like God to believe in. Our God may not ask us to believe in him; our belief may be automatic.
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 02:44 pm
@LordStorm,
LordStorm, welcome to A2K.

You've asked some loaded questions, for which there are no simple answers. Some of us, myself included, consider ourselves Christians. Others here consider themselves athiests, agnostics, Buddhists, Jews or followers of other faiths. You will find no consensus.

Matters of faith require personal study and searching one's own heart. You cannot inherit a set of personal beliefs, nor can you unquestioningly buy into a particular interpretation of religious standards. In order to have an authentic, personal value system, you must figure it out for yourself. Your own mind, heart and experiences will lead the way.

I have been a Christian for many years, but my own beliefs are not exactly the same as anyone else I know. That is true for everyone. And, as our lives progress, our beliefs often evolve. It is a lifetime search...not something that can easily be answered in a few sentences.

These are basic, essential questions. I wish you clarity as you begin your search.

0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 03:01 pm
@Miklos7,
I'm an atheist Miklos7, but the question seemed to be about Christian theology more than the existence of gods so I responded in kind.

Similarly, if someone asked me why Polonius gave advice to Laertes in Hamlet my answer wouldn't be that they were fictional characters.
 

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