Strength and Weakness of a Child...how to encourage...

Interesting...

Kind of reminds me of my daughter. One thing I've found useful when she says something "wrong" is to ask "that's interesting, why do you think that?" Her explanation usually contains some clue as to what's up.

Other than that it sounds like a quest for independence to me. Seeking to differentiate himself from you -- that you're Mom and you're smart but he's smart too. Overshooting sometimes, of course, but might be more about that than insecurity per se.

Or maybe power struggle, as you have the argument -- he won't back down because of a power thing.

Not sure, just musing...

Do you know if he does this with other people, or just you?

You know...that is a good question. I need to ask my husband. I don't hear him do that with him like he does with me. It may be just a war of wills kind of thing. I will find out. Thanks Soz.

The quest for independence strikes a chord though...going to ruminate on that for a while...

Being a twin that may be doubly important to him (seriously, no pun intended) -- you know, establishing himself as an individual.

I agree TaiChi...his brother is a ham. He loves attention and he has never acted like he minded that...but I am thinking that this is just his way of setting himself apart. Thank you...

That was a thought I had too -- his brother's the ham, he's "the smart one" -- may be a role he thinks he should take but he's not totally sure how to do it.

Hey Dixie-girl

Well - the boys are twins - but very much two separate little fellas - as with any siblings, they can be night and day - but of course having 2 the exact same age, in the same house.... and a baby bro too... well - it's easier to see the differences and wonder about how "unalike" they are.

Could he be just wanting to be different to his brother? He has his own personality and characteristics and I know you are allowing him to grow in his own skin - he may feel his need to argue a point because he does feel a little less secure - but all you can do is allow him to come to you as and when he wants to hug you - and when he argues back - question his argument in a constructive way. So much easier to say that a? when they are backchatting to a certain degree. Know-it-all kids - well they all "know far better than their folks" - HA

The kids also have had different friends, different peer groups - this all has an effect too - they have different ailments and different understandings of their individual roles in the house.

PaPaDixie is away a lot - so your little fella, even tho he is used to it, may be reacting to that in a way - when MaMa is the head of the house when PaPa is away - certainly he may take on a role there. That's also a time where is can start pushing his boundaries - which is what kids will do as they get older. I know he's only 8 and not in any way like my kids - but both mine reacted differently to their Dad travelling. Maybe your little fella is trying to be the "man about the house" - wanting to be the one who is right, in charge and therefore butts heads with you.

I think, from who I know you to be - and just my opinion - that you are doing a fine job with him - and you are an excellent Mom - you need to keep encouraging him to understand he can be different from his brother and quiet and doesn't need to know-it-all quite yet and if he wants one on one time with you - tho I understand how impossible that may be - that he can have that when you can do it.

If he is less creative than his brother, a straight A student and quiet - he maybe thinks more or on a different level than his twin - so encouraging him to express himself in a less "knowing" manner could be a start - just keep encouraging him with positive reinforcement and not lock heads with him - he's too young at the moment to be "rational" but he also has to know his boundaries.

He's beginning to find his feet and he's stepping out in a new direction.

He's a kid - from an early age they do believe they "know" everything. We just have to show that them we know stuff too without engaging them in battle.

(you know my history.... so whaddo I know - but just my opinion a?)

The more I think about it the more I believe that this is what it is. His brother is a straight A student as well. But he tends to lean more toward social things. He is the clown, the singer, the instigator.

J seems to prefer the back seat. I never thought about his need to differentiate himself from his brother. They both have good friends and are good friends - yet J has always seemed content to let S be the front man. Apparently he is feeling a need to be set apart. This actually should be fairly simple. S has asked for art lessons and J has asked for piano lessons. This will give them different pursuits and allow him something different than his brother.

Great perspectives ladies...

Thank you Izzie...I do think that is what is going on. I will start questioning him more on why he thinks what he does. I think you are right...I just needed some outside perspective. I think we are hearding out - they are getting antsy - it is so wet and yucky outside they need to get out and move!

Hugs to you!

Would you say that he is more similar to you or The Professor in temperament? Each of us is our own self, but we tend to mirror the innate personalities of one parent more than the other. If he's an independent sole by nature, and you could say the same about yourself then I think what you may be seeing is a test of wills as to who is in charge.

Being strongly independent is a virtue, but it can also be a thorn when it gets in the way of letting folks with more authority give more direction than one is willing to swallow. Strongly independent kids make great adults. Getting there can sometimes be a mission.

Hiya! I work in an elementary school. I'd suggest bringing this up with his teacher if he or she seems responsive in general. Ask if he is a know-it-all in class, because that can be sort of ostracizing. We tell our students that they should feel proud and good in their hearts when they finish early, know the answer, get high marks. We remind them that everyone has their individual strengths and that by telling others how smart they are, they might make them feel badly.

I know some twins, my sister is married to one and I see others in school. They are very all different, but very similar. My brother-in-law and his twin differ in out-goingness, style, vocation. But, they are both athletic and competitive (in a good way). Of course, they are grown up and may have over-come any issues that may have once existed. The twins I see in school seem very different from one-another even as early as pre-school.

I'll read up and see if I have more to add.

Ayep. That may just be it as well JPB...I have always been very independent...The Professor is a loner - not so much independent. I can see that about J. There very likely may be a couple of things going on here. I have been watching him and today he was pushing a car down some stairs. I told him to stop and a friend of mine told him it might break. "nuh uh" (hate that word- not word..whateve4r you consider that) he immediately said. I told him it was just a plastic car and asked him why he thought it wouldn't break. He said, "I just know". Once he said that - it occured to me that he is saying that a whole lot lately. I am trying to think if the Prof or I say that at all. I will have to ask him when he gets home.

Anyway...He and his brother are not really overly competitive. They seem to complement each other in so many ways. They are not co-dependent at all. We have always taught them to encourage each other no matter what they do.

I am just going to keep my eyes open and make sure I give him ways to differentiate himself from his brother. I don't want to overthink it either.

Thanks littlek - any kind of information will be welcome

(Probably off-topic q -- is The Professor actually a professor?)

Thanks for the exchange -- details always help. That does sound a bit more like independence-from-mom than independence-from-brother. (I know way more about the former than the latter...!)

What would the consequence be if he breaks the plastic car?

If it's just that it's broken, and he has to deal with that, I think I'd go ahead and let him risk it. If it's someone else's, he needs to be more careful. If it's his, he needs to understand that you won't go out and replace it if it's broken -- but otherwise, at eight, I think it can be his call.

And that's what the exchange says to me: "Mom, trust me. I'm not a baby anymore."

yep, and it's tough to give over that control when you know you're right! <Trust me, I just know :wink: >. Maybe it's time to start thinking about picking your battles, missy. K was 6 when I knew the only reason we were butting heads was because we both "just knew" what was right and what was best.

If he's a lot like you and you're an in charge kind of mom and he's an in charge kind of kid then it's not too early to try to let him learn the concept of natural consequences such as what soz is describing. Not arbitrary ones like time outs, but "Gee, too bad you busted your car. Guess you don't have a car to play with until you earn the money to replace it" kind of concepts.

Now, if he's scratching the finish off of hard-wood floor steps then those are YOUR steps he's damaging and you have the right to put in a full stop order.

Good Morning Ladies...

I appreciate all your comments. I feel like today I have a better handle on things. I am just going to pick my battles. I will let him learn from his own stubborness when it only affects him. And when it is bordering disrespect. I have them busy cleaning their rooms this morning.

Soz- My husband is not really a professor - he could be with all the degrees and certifications but he is just an eternal student mostly. He reads non-stop. His favorite thing to do if it paid well would be a History Professor. And that will come one day, once the boys are through with college. I tease him about being an absent minded professor a lot. He is pretty unaware of things around him most of the time. Which I found fascinating before we were married, and tolerable before we had kids...and now quite annoying that we have them. But he is who he is and most of the time I deal well with it.

J. takes after him in the ease of learning and after me in the independence of thought and being. Also the absolute inability to sit still for too terribly long. I am not a focused person...neither is J. But J. is loyal and strong in his convictions, which will serve him well.

S, his twin, is like me in his creativity. And the hammy part pretty much comes from me as well. His focus is amazing much like his fathers and his tenacity. He does not give up. That would be stubborness as well...but his comes out in more productive ways...rather than arguing with me. He does not know when to stop though when it comes to his entertaining, and something we are working on is he needs to learn when it is and when it isn't appropriate to make everyone laugh. Gets him into heaps of trouble at school.

G-baby - my 5 year old is a quilt of all those things so far. He emmulates them both and I haven't quite figured him out yet. He is a loner like his Dad for sure though. Doesn't mind playing on his own and doesn't seem to know that anyone is around at times. In his own little world.

It is an adventure raising these boys. And there are times when I get a little stumped. Thank you all for your help. I am sure I will be back. I generally get hung up on something at least every couple of weeks if not more.

Don't worry, just as soon as you figure out 8 year old boys they'll turn 9.

woohoo! Thanks JPB

BTW, there is one set of books that REALLY helped me figure out ages-and-stages. It's Your # Year Old, by Ames and Haber (sometimes Ilg). They aren't new but are spot on with what you can expect your # year old to demonstrate as age-appropriate traits. They describe children development as a spiral with periods of inwardness and outwardness. Eight is a Very out-of-bounds age where kids who haven't run out into the road since they were four will do crazy, goofy, out-of-bounds (sometimes unsafe) behaviors. Reading these books helped me understand that behaviors that I saw were well within normal expectations of developing kids.

That doesn't mean that you ignore or excuse all behaviors as age appropriate, only that if you know they're age appropriate you tend not to overreact to what you're seeing.

Hate to tell you this, but 5.5 to 6.5 is one of the most difficult developmental stages from a parenting perspective. Don't be surprised if you run into some mighty strong-willed responses from your five year old. How close is he to his 6th birthday?