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Where are the women?

 
 
Chumly
 
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 11:31 am
The sexual revolution and women's lib have transpired, so where are all babes that can truly their hands dirty with stuff like:

internal combustion engines?
electrical?
machining?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,860 • Replies: 37
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 11:45 am
I've met several on occasion so I guess it depends on where you hang out. I've had my car worked on by some really good female mechanics. I've worked side-by-side with female electronics technicians, too. By no means is it in huge numbers, though. Like with any socialization, it takes many years even generations to overcome the bias so with each generation that passes there'll be more.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 01:02 pm
Oops I forgot the word "get".

In any case I am not saying there are none anywhere but they must be very few and far between, because I have never seen one, let alone one that would constitute the term "babe".

Not in any commercial, industrial, marine or aerospace position in over 30 years!

I am not talking about oil change / tuneup shop grease monkeys. I am talking about (for example) a fully qualified journeyman mechanic working for Finning or Caterpillar that can work a diesel engine down and back again.

I am not talking about an electronics tech I am talking about electrical; that's a different animal altogether requiring a different skill set: that of generators, motor control, power distribution etc.

Most people (and I would assume you Ragman also) would not know if there were any qualified babes or not, as most people would not come into contact with that aspect of industry with any regularity.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 01:24 pm
Well, chumly, that's a whole other kettle of fish and sheds a whole different light on the subject.

Sorry, I'm at a loss, though I was briefly connected with an employment agency..not in that area.

Sounds like that kind of depth is hard to find. Hell, isn't it hard to find MEN like that?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 01:43 pm
Most people most of the time seem aware only of the finished product / retail end of the economy and take for granted the industry that supports it.

Example: most people most of the time seem to accept the diesel engine or the electrics for a large milling machine as something that simply exists (assuming they think about such things at all).

From my professional employment perspective as an Industrial Journeyman Electrician, the sexual revolution and women's lib have amounted to zilch, I've seen no women (let alone babes) that can truly get their hands dirty.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 02:16 pm
I'm only talking about myself here (and not even addressing the part of your issue that has anything to do with someone being both a technical or mechanical wizard AND a babe Chumley - I'll leave that to someone else) but in my case- the fact that I'm not an electrician or mechanic has absolutely nothing to do with not having had the opportunity to do that (as in I trained in my vocation when women were increasingly allowed to do or be anything they wanted to do or be).

It has everything to do with the fact that I have absolutely no aptitude for either a mechanical or technical trade.

I hesitate to say this - because I'm sure there are women everywhere who do have this ability (my daughter has much mechanical and technical acuity and raw intuition than I do), but I do have to admit that at least a small part of me believes that males are usually more technically and/or mechanically adept than females.

Whether this is because they have historically been the ones who have performed these services for thousands of years....and women have been relegated to duties elsewhere, I don't know. Although I do think that that must have at least a little to do with the way that the brains, interests and skill sets of the genders have evolved over the years.

I also think it used to have something to do with physical attributes...I know more of the tools are computerized and mechanized now - so that might not be the case as much anymore - but a person used to have to be pretty strong and carry some weight to put some muscle behind unscrewing and screwing lug nuts and such with wrenches.
I remember one time my sister and I got a flat tire coming home from the beach and the two of us together could not get the lug nuts on the tire loosened to take it off the car. We knew how to use the jack and change the tire - but we couldn't. And both of us are pretty strong for our size...some guy had to stop and help us.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 03:00 pm
Hi Aiden,

It's definitely possible now with modern techniques, tools, training and teamwork to have women as Industrial Journeyman Electricians (for example).

I would really like it because it would decrease certain demands of the job and force everyone to rely more on modern techniques, tools, training and teamwork, but again no women are pushing the envelope (let alone babes).

It's as if the sexual revolution and women's lib never existed.
0 Replies
 
missconduct
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 06:12 pm
babes
She's my girlfriend.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 06:45 pm
Re: Where are the women?
Chumly wrote:
The sexual revolution and women's lib have transpired, so where are all babes that can truly their hands dirty with stuff like:

internal combustion engines?
electrical?
machining?


So do you ever think about facts before posting stuff like this?

This is from Wikipedia:

Quote:
MIT has been nominally coeducational since admitting Ellen Swallow Richards in 1870. (Richards also became the first female member of MIT's faculty, specializing in sanitary chemistry.)[99] Female students, however, remained a tiny minority (numbered in dozens) prior to the completion of the first wing of a women's dormitory, McCormick Hall, in 1963.[100][101] By 1993, 32% of MIT's undergraduates were female and in 2006, the number had increased to near-parity (47.5%).[102]


Law and medical schools have seen the same jump in female admissions.

There are tons of sites devoted to women in the professions you list, maybe you should read through a few of them before coming to incorrect conclusions.

As a landscaper "babe", I get my hands dirty all the time. I fix my own chainsaw, backhoe and various other sundry equipment.

Chumly wrote:
It's as if the sexual revolution and women's lib never existed.


I have no idea why you would think engineering and the sexual revolution have anything to do with one another. I've never met an engineer interested in sex (and I dated a few in college}.

If you don't think the women's movement has had a huge impact in this country and much of the western world, I would suggest you use your little bitty male brain (not the one between your legs} and do some research on women's roles, reproduction rights and opportunities pre-1965.
0 Replies
 
missconduct
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 07:16 pm
you go girl
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 08:34 pm
Re: Where are the women?
Green Witch wrote:
Chumly wrote:
The sexual revolution and women's lib have transpired, so where are all babes that can truly their hands dirty with stuff like:

internal combustion engines?
electrical?
machining?


So do you ever think about facts before posting stuff like this?

This is from Wikipedia:

Quote:
MIT has been nominally coeducational since admitting Ellen Swallow Richards in 1870. (Richards also became the first female member of MIT's faculty, specializing in sanitary chemistry.)[99] Female students, however, remained a tiny minority (numbered in dozens) prior to the completion of the first wing of a women's dormitory, McCormick Hall, in 1963.[100][101] By 1993, 32% of MIT's undergraduates were female and in 2006, the number had increased to near-parity (47.5%).[102]


Law and medical schools have seen the same jump in female admissions.

There are tons of sites devoted to women in the professions you list, maybe you should read through a few of them before coming to incorrect conclusions.

As a landscaper "babe", I get my hands dirty all the time. I fix my own chainsaw, backhoe and various other sundry equipment.

Chumly wrote:
It's as if the sexual revolution and women's lib never existed.


I have no idea why you would think engineering and the sexual revolution have anything to do with one another. I've never met an engineer interested in sex (and I dated a few in college}.

If you don't think the women's movement has had a huge impact in this country and much of the western world, I would suggest you use your little bitty male brain (not the one between your legs} and do some research on women's roles, reproduction rights and opportunities pre-1965.
You miss the point in the context of my text alas.

Aiden understood and responded in kind, Aiden is female, you might want to read her post as well as rethink your response in the apropos context.

If you are still unconvinced tour a diesel engine manufacturer, pulp mill, steel mill aerospace firm (that's me) and find the female industrial electricians or equivalent such as millwright, let alone them being babes.

Like I said I have never seen one, let alone one that would constitute the term "babe".

Not in any commercial, industrial, marine or aerospace position in over 30 years!

I am not talking about oil change / tuneup shop grease monkeys. I am talking about (for example) a fully qualified journeyman mechanic working for Finning or Caterpillar that can work a diesel engine down and back again.

I am not talking about an electronics tech I am talking about electrical; that's a different animal altogether requiring a different skill set: that of generators, motor control, power distribution etc.

Most people (and I would you GW) would not know if there were any qualified babes or not, as most people would not come into contact with that aspect of industry with any regularity.

Most people most of the time seem aware only of the finished product / retail end of the economy and take for granted the industry that supports it.

Example: most people most of the time seem to accept the diesel engine or the electrics for a large milling machine as something that simply exists (assuming they think about such things at all).

From my professional employment perspective as an Industrial Journeyman Electrician, the sexual revolution and women's lib have amounted to zilch, I've seen no women (let alone babes) that can truly get their hands dirty.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 08:42 pm
Green Witch, you've definitely got it right.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 08:45 pm
Since you agree, tour a diesel engine manufacturer, pulp mill, steel mill, aerospace firm (that's me) and find the female industrial electricians (or equivalent such as millwright) let alone the question of them being a "babe" (which does indeed go to part of my argument).

I doubt your success, and my 30 years of being in the trade substantive empiricism.

Let me know how it goes.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:01 pm
I've spent more than enough time in pulp and paper mills over the past 32 years, since I started as an engineering student at university. There are no male or female hotties there that I've ever spotted.

Depending on the town, a decent representation of women in the trades, but they're as hot/not as the men.

Auto plants, I've done my time there as well - and the results are similar. Unless you're a fan of the Grizzly Adams look, not much in the way of hot men there either.

I know some very hot-looking female engineers (particularly in electrical and systems design), but the men in that group are more attractive as well - maybe the hotties didn't stop at the techie level?

I know a buncha male marine engineers - nobody that would meet the hot definition there either.

Lots of professional tradespeople/journeymen in and around my life since I was a kid - still more men than women - but hottie/babe doesn't come to mind when I think of any of them.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:19 pm
Again I am not referring simply to female employees in pulp and paper mills. I am referring to industrial electricians (or equivalent such as millwrights).

Exactly how many female industrial electricians (or equivalent such as female millwrights) have you seen?

You may be missing the point somewhat as to (what I gather is) your understanding of "the trades" as per my in context definition.

I suugest your observations of various workers in a heavy manufacturing / processing facility does not give a merited indication of exactly how many female industrial electricians (or equivalent such as female millwrights) are working there.

For example, in the aerospace firm I work in there are 650 employees, but only three electricians and seven millwrights.

One of the electricians cannot (by my in context definition) be called an industrial electrician as he has (so far) been unable to pass the requisite examinations. He will be fired within the year should he not be able to pass.

Maybe a more fun question might be to ask why the sexier females most often don't go jobs demanding dirt under their finger nails.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:21 pm
Well, I spit out my refreshing drink on reading this -

"I have no idea why you would think engineering and the sexual revolution have anything to do with one another. I've never met an engineer interested in sex (and I dated a few in college.)"

GreenWitch and I have shared many opinions. That sentence fit my experience back then too. Still chuckling.
Since then I've opened my mind a tad, but, still, that was a good laugh.



My university year was '63. I know whereof she speaks, as in '61 (the year of data I reviewed when trying to figure out where the hell to apply), med school admissions had very very very few women, as in 0-1 out of ninety to a hundred. Much changed with a jolt not too long after, due of course to the Civil Rights movement/act, and then has progressed.

A lot of architects and landscape architects and a variety of engineers are women these days. A lot of construction management people on honking big projects are women. A lot of landscape management folks well acquainted with moving tons of soil and giant boulders are women.

So you've found a niche women haven't gotten to yet. The amount of progress happening has been over a really short time. You might be right about some general lack of interest re your stated niche past run of the mill general lack of interest. Give it a bit more time.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:24 pm
Chumly wrote:
Maybe a more fun question might be to ask why the sexier females most often don't go jobs demanding dirt under their finger nails.


And what about the sexy men - why don't they want those jobs?

~~~

Look Chumly, I can tell the difference between a heavy labourer and a millwright. I am not going to enumerate the millwrights town by town, unless you're prepared to pay for the information. Seriously.

I don't agree with your premise and your posting approach isn't going to win any converts to that premise.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:30 pm
Well nothing has happened in 30 plus years (actually much longer but you get the idea) in terms of industrial electricians / millwrights and I have this feeling (as shared by aiden) that it's not going to happen.

If it did happen (as I mentioned to aiden) I would really like it because it would decrease the physical demands of the job and force everyone to rely more on modern techniques, tools, training and teamwork.

Believe me, being an industrial electrician or millwright is nothing like being a landscaper or carpenter or some such popular domestic trade.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Mar, 2008 09:55 pm
ehBeth wrote:
I don't agree with your premise........
It would be no fun if you did.

ehBeth wrote:
your posting approach isn't going to win any converts to that premise.
Not so, witness the below, but in any case reliance on the logical fallacy argumentum ad populum is dubious.

Ragman wrote:
Well, chumly, that's a whole other kettle of fish and sheds a whole different light on the subject.


aidan wrote:
I hesitate to say this - because I'm sure there are women everywhere who do have this ability (my daughter has much mechanical and technical acuity and raw intuition than I do), but I do have to admit that at least a small part of me believes that males are usually more technically and/or mechanically adept than females.

Whether this is because they have historically been the ones who have performed these services for thousands of years....and women have been relegated to duties elsewhere, I don't know. Although I do think that that must have at least a little to do with the way that the brains, interests and skill sets of the genders have evolved over the years


ossobuco wrote:
You might be right about some general lack of interest re your stated niche past run of the mill general lack of interest.
0 Replies
 
titia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2008 10:55 pm
This discussion somehow triggered my memory, and so I recalled a rather famous story of one local truck workshop. The place was extremely famous with one of it's leading engineers, a hot female truck engine guru.

Men used to march in squads to that place, just to see the babe and have their truck serviced by someone hot. This lasted for 2-3 years or so, until an issue was printed in a local newspaper about the hot engineer having no clue about cars at all, not even to mention diesel engines.

After a while it came out that the famous "engineer" was the "secret girlfriend" to the workshop's head, who spread out the myths, obviously aiming to increase the turnover. On the other hand, he must be given credit for he managed to keep the story going around at least two years!

... Although speaking of women in male-type industries, one shouldn't forget computing (even though it doesn't fit the list of industries presented here). You can find tons of brilliant computer programmers, system architects etc., some of who have even invented the current standards. Just as an example -- AIX operating system security platform has been created by a female programmer.

And that is so much neater than being able to drive a screw of some Scania engine, huh? :wink:
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