Anybody familiar with NLP?

re NLP: my ex wife was a holistic practioner and nurse and also some New Age friends were into incoporating it, too. They say they felt that they benefited from it (self help).

Personally, I found it very hard to apply the principles and I really tried listening to tapes from a NLP course from a friend who loaned them to me. I'm not disparaging of it at all, but I just found it quite hard to see the changes ( e.g. changing habitual thoughts about becoming financial success, relationship, etc.) However, as is the case with many hypnosis subjects, success may really hinge on whether or not you're a good subject for hypnosis ...(e.g. suggestible). Those that are, may benefit. Sure might be a good way to quit smoking, as an example.

Does this help at all?

FWIW, here's Wikipedia's blurb on what NLP is:

"Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is an interpersonal communication model and an alternative approach to psychotherapy based on the subjective study of language, communication and personal change.

It was co-created by Richard Bandler and linguist John Grinder in the 1970s. The initial focus was pragmatic, modeling three successful psychotherapists, Fritz Perls (Gestalt Therapy), Virginia Satir (Family Systems Therapy), and eventually Milton H. Erickson (Clinical Hypnosis), with the aim of discovering what made these individuals more successful than their peers."

just my opinion but i think it's a crock.

no more or less of a crock than hypnosis is. Perhaps a hi-tech hypnosis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

"In the early 1980s, NLP was heralded as an important advance in psychotherapy and counseling, and it attracted significant interest from researchers and clinicians. But the relationship between NLP and science has been complex and controversial, partly explained by its world view that was born of pragmatism rather than theory. Research reviews (1984; 1987) in The Journal of Counseling Psychology and by the National Research Council (1988; NRC) committe found little empirical basis for these claims or for the assumptions of NLP. Some clinical psychologists and researchers have criticized NLP as a pseudoscientific or New Age form of psychotherapy. Few practitioners have presented their clinical data for peer-review and most have had little interest in empirical validation marking a decrease in research interest. NLP as remained widely supported by its practitioners in the psychotherapy field and has influenced other forms of brief and eclectic interventions."

I have been exposed to various people blathering on about it, and attempting to teach me about it. I always found them and it nuts. That doesn't necessarily mean it IS nuts, of course, it might mean that my nuttiness is of a non-sympatico ilk.

I have always found its adherents to be weird and heavily into sales and/or rather evangelical. I guess the sales thing would be where you come into it. There's a lot of that sort of stuff in sales gee up stuff, isn't there?


I would have thought there'd be a bible of some sort for it?


Just checked Amazon...no immediate bible obvious.

I'd mebbe go for one of the books that seems to be close to your purpose for wanting to know about the thing.......there seem a lot that are business related, and most seem to be available cheap second hand.

Yes, I have read sales books where they refer to NLP. The book I'm reading(way too slowly) right now is about influence & persuasion, and it's referred in there too.

Like all sales & psychology books I read, I try to take principles that make sense to me, and apply them. Surely I'll think some of it is nuts, however I'm open to at least learning about it and forming my own opinions on it.

Thanks Ragman. I think with some of this stuff, it can be hard to come to solid conclusions on how effective certain principles are.

I took a course in it back in, um, I think it was 1987? I thought it was mainly a crock then and so did not "get the full benefit" or whatever of it. Fortunately, the class was free, it was just a way to keep myself occupied while I was between jobs. I still think the hypnosis-type aspect is silly.

I do recall, though, the idea of communicating/matching re visual, auditory or kinesthetic methodologies. And I think that kind of makes sense. It goes like this (I'm recalling this off the top of my head, so any errors are my own):

People are divided into three groups although we probably all flit from one to another. Visual - these are people who are, unsurprisingly, very visual in their stimuli. But they're also very visual in their communications. If you've ever heard someone say, "I see what you're saying" then you know what I'm talking about. Most people are visual, and these folks tend to talk the loudest and the fastest, too.

Auditory folks are the rarest of the bunch. Most of their stimuli and linguistic metaphors have to do with hearing, as in, "I hear ya!" They tend to speak in a much slower speed although not the slowest.

Kinesthetic folks get their stimuli through the other three senses, but mainly through tactile sensations. This isn't so much actually, physically touching people (although it certainly can be); it's more like a gut reaction. These are also the touchy-feely people, they want to touch your arm while talking, hug, etc. They also can be overweight, because the senses of smell and taste loom very large for them. They talk the softest of the three groups, and are the most laid-back. They also speak the most slowly of the three groups.

What this means is that if someone is speaking with visual metaphors, but you're an auditory person, it's going to clang in your head (or, if you're visual, it won't look right, or if you're kinesthetic, it won't feel right). I tend to mainly shuffle between auditory and kinesthetic and I find that I really despise it when people say "I see what you're saying". Well, you can't see it unless I write it down, I feel like saying. In any event, in order to meet them halfway (such as if you want to make a connection, e. g. via sales, or make an impression, such as in a job interview), you should mirror their movements and their speaking style.

If an interviewer says to me, "Where do you see yourself in five years?", I have to answer something like, "I visualize my future as ...." If the interviewer says, "I've heard good things about you.", then my response should be something like, "I'm so glad you've been listening." If the interviewer says, "I have a good feeling about this.", I should answer in this sort of fashion, "This feels like a good fit to me." I have found, if I'm unsure of someone's patterns, I will answer in three different ways, waiting for the spark from them that tells me that I've gotten into their groove. This does seem to help with establishing a rapport.

Another thing that NLP does is it maps out facial tics. Nothing too complicated, more like the way that eyes and the neck shift, depending on whether a person is visual, auditory or kinesthetic, and whether they are speaking of reality or of imagination. Generally, the visual people look up the most, the auditory ones look directly and the kinesthetics gaze in a more downward fashion. And, when looking at a face, left (L) is usually typical of imagination or what isn't (e. g. lies) versus right (R) is usually typical of what is (e. g. reality). Left = lies and right = reality. This isn't foolproof by any means and it may all go to hell if a person is left-handed, but I have noticed that it can be very hard to look to my left (which is the viewer's right when looking directly at me) if I'm not being truthful, unless I really concentrate.

Anyway, that's what I recall about it.

YVW, Slappy.

As always, there's a ton of info from out fellow-A2k-ers most of whom, on the whole, are sensible worldly lot.

For the year that I was involved retail furniture sales I knowingly didn't apply any of NLP principles.

Rolls eyes, visually and kinesthetically, backs out of thread audibly.

That kind of thing is interesting to me, and sounds like something I would try to apply.

NLP is to psychotherapy what John Tesh is to music.
Not that I have attitude or anything.
I'm sure John Tesh is popular with some people.

ROFL

Osso, you made my day, as I back slowly out behind you. That made my brain hurt...

RH

NLP sounds interesting to me too, but it's controversial. The jury seems to be out as far as just how effective it is.

I'm more interested in CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) which seems to be a far more established method of helping people to attain their goals.

I found a website where you can get some free CBT assistance. The site was started by a CBT therapist and you just take a simple test (which helps them to identify the areas you need to work), then they provide with you with several modules that you can read through (like "Building Confidence" or "Being Assertive" or even things like "Sleeping Better"). It's basically life coaching skills.

The best thing about it is that it helps you to set very specific goals for yourself, and shows you how to break down those goals into smaller steps.

For instance, someone might say, "I'd like to meet more people." Well, that's nice, but it's vague and there is no deadline involved. How exactly are you going to meet new people?

CBT helps you to brainstorm several ways of achieving that goal, and then working towards it -- so you don't feel overwhelmed.

They also point out that when you are focusing on one or two goals, you have to realize that some of your other goals will have to be put on the backburner for a while. In other words, you can't concentrate on five or six goals at the same time -- one or two is better -- then you can get to the other goals.

I should add that they tell you on the site that they are not a substitute for a therapist, but considering the site is free, they have a lot of good info there.

If you're interested, I'll send you a pm with the site address.

Speaking from ignorance here, but is this basically a method of messing with
people's minds to get them to do what you want?

Well, I heard NLP at univerity - better: I heard about it.

I suppose, I've used (and use) some NLP techniques in counselling. But since they are part of other techniques as well - and already known before NPL was "invented" ...

I'd thought, though, that NLP is a museal New Age therapy and no topic anymore.

Looking forward to this, just ordered it:



http://www.amazon.com/NLP-New-Technology-Achievement-Comprehensive/dp/0688146198

And anyone else interested in social psychology stuff, just finished "Influence: the Psychology of Persuasion," and it was absolutely amazing. I took forever to read it though, I'm juggling a few books at once.

I've got that book - explains the practical side of it very well.